Pre-Release CIV VI Discussion

[greenline]

Thanks for writing a summary for those of us who haven't had time to keep up with most of the changes. I really like the civics tree, but I'm not convinced by the AI objectives. Shouldn't the AI do what it thinks will help it win the game, not some randomly decided quest that it gets assigned?

An AI that only plays to win is one that will always declare war on the player at some point, making diplomacy utterly meaningless.

[Dp101]

Thanks for writing a summary for those of us who haven't had time to keep up with most of the changes. I really like the civics tree, but I'm not convinced by the AI objectives. Shouldn't the AI do what it thinks will help it win the game, not some randomly decided quest that it gets assigned?

An AI that only plays to win is one that will always declare war on the player at some point, making diplomacy utterly meaningless.

Right, I understand that playing to win like that is terrible. What I meant is an AI that works to build up its position according to what is useful to it, rather than what an assigned goal for it is. I did not mean to advocate for an AI that always dogpiles whoever is about to win. Basically, I want civ 4 AI.

[Sullla]

Dp101, that is how the Civ4 AI plays. The programming gives them a goal and they work towards it, regardless of whether it makes any strategic sense. Isabella is obsessed with religion. Mansa Musa loves tech trading. Gandhi hates anyone who declares war. Catherine backstabs other leaders. Montezuma is completely insane and attacks everyone. Civ6 is supposed to be doing the same thing, only making it more clear to the player what the AI leaders like and dislike, which can only be a good thing in my book. How will it work in practice? We'll have to wait and see.

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Excellent article, Sulla.

One missing point could be the new „Great Person System“ in Civ6. It reminds me to Civ4:Col and I see a Let's play where it produces a bunch of non-useable units.

Overall I fear that the issues in the combat system, MP and KI over-seeds the good design decisions and made the game not challenging enough.

[Molach]

Thanks for that article.

I may have moved from mostly pessimistic to slightly optimistic now.


I'll throw out some concerns that still bug me about Civ VI and why I'm stuck halfway on the fence for now..

* 1 UPT. I felt civ 5 had too few hexes for tactical maneuvers to matter, and after playing the newstest and bestest version, BNW, I still found the AI redonculous . I have very little experience with the game, having played two starts and half a game or so...but an AI declared (this would be in the half game, so halfway through the game), I was unprepared and obviously unfamiliar with how to ware effective war in civ V. Still - stopped this powerful enemy cold and can soon take the fight back to her. If I ever pick the game up again. My stopping the enemy was in part due to just putting units on the right tiles, but those units were actually not ready for the attack. But second point fixed that...
* ...Rush-buying units. I do not know if other types of rushing are in but...buying an army that can instantly thwart an invading enemy AI felt cheap. Slavery, drafting - well those are my citizens, and they get angry and fewer when I do it. Now? I just sold some resources and bought them in the market. Instead of paying maintenance for 50 turns, you just keep enough to buy the unit in times of trouble. Was there anything wrong with slavery/drafting in civ IV? Well, they might be *slightly* overpowered, but ...just make them slightly less effective? Rush-buying is still in and I don't like it.
* Building maintenance. Why was this put in after civ IV fixed it? I did not like it in civ 2 or 3 either. It's un-fun. I dislike it. If I have to be positive, I have to say I positively hate it. More so than in civ 2, because then they didn't have the answer. Now they did.

* Not as mayor, but tourism. Why is this in the game again? F*** tourism in a civ game.

EDIT: Oh, city states. I think they might work well IF and ONLY IF their quests relate to AI-AI and player-AI interactions. Like "Molach of Norway stole our worker. Punish him please" or "X declared war on us just now, declare back please?" or "Ally with our friends the Norwegians" or such. Doing stuff you might have considered doing anyway is just silly.

[AdrienIer]

I don't think Civ 6 has building maintenance ?

[yuris125]

It does. It makes sense - since there's no slider and you can't spend your gold funding research, they have to make you spend it on something other than rush buying. I agree with Molach it's unfun though

[Sareln]

I don't think Civ 6 has building maintenance ?

I read/heard that it wasn't in the preview builds they gave the youtubers, but it was planned to be in there for release. /rumor.

[Krill]

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/57...ot/d8umhe9

I added a few extra details in the commentary, but here's a quick text version:

In Civilization 6, starting more cities does not increase the cost of technologies or civics.

Unique districts do not count towards the district cap and are cheaper to construct.

When you capture a settler, you actually get a settler, which you can then use to start your own city.

Razing a city removes that city from the map instantly. It can only be done when you capture a city during a war.

There's no resistance period when you capture a city. You also don't have to build a courthouse like in Civ 5.

Removing a marsh with a builder gives your city food. Removing jungle gives food (but less) and production.

Pantheon cost does not increase when other civs found it. You keep your pantheon for the entire game.

You can move a unit and then airlift it on the same turn. Requires aerodrome district with an airport on both sides.

If you capture cities during a war, you have to get the original owner to cede them to you in the peace deal.

You don't have to use unit promotions immediately. Promoting a unit will end its turn, but also heal it.

You can pay city states you're the suzerain of to temporarily take control of all their military units.

You only need 1 copy of a strategic resource to build units (with encampment - 2 copies to build them in any city)

Your spies can get captured by the civ you're spying on. You can also buy and sell captured spies.

There's no global happiness. Each city requires amenities. One copy of a specific luxury gives +1 amenity in 4 cities.

You can build a missile silo with a military engineer and then use that silo to launch a nuke, no rebasing needed.

This looks good. I think main issues in MP (other than how they actually code it) are going to be city states (stupid mechanic for an MP game) and 1upt.

[SevenSpirits]

I think the main issue for MP (aside from potentially just lacking features) will be how many mechanics rely on AIs' opinions of you.