Civ 6 Release and Update Discussion Thread

[teh]

Is it double movement, or just an extra movement point? I think it's just an extra point. Still broken of course, but much better than double movement (think of 8 move horse units)!

[MJW (ya that one)]

Is it double movement, or just an extra movement point? I think it's just an extra point. Still broken of course, but much better than double movement (think of 8 move horse units)!

It's +2 movement points. That's just insane in this game because they got rid of the defender's 2x movement advantage. It's better than giving Commando to every single one of your units.

[teh]

Oh nevermind then, I agree that's pretty broken!

[Bacchus]

Just confirms that Ed Beach really doesn't understand movement. I refused to believe this till the end, I am in a minority that thinks that Civ6 terrain movement costs actually make sense, but the Persia/Macedon release plainly shows that he's got no clue.

[Wyatan]

rape

Really?

It's not MJW's phrase. Even though my Civ 3 experience was largely before I had my own internet connection, I knew of RoP rape, and it's on the list of exploits for the Civ 3 competitions. It's a very bad choice of words, to say the least, but not of MJW's doing.

Ah. A good clarification, thanks. Hopefully the phrase will die out.

Don't know the origin of the phrase, but some French-speaking civ community might be to blame for it, since "rape" = "violer" but "violer un accord" = "to break an agreement" with no sexual connotation whatsoever.
So it could simply be a poor word-for-word translation.

That said, genuinely feeling offended by it ? Really ?

[MJW (ya that one)]

I'm pretty sure what happened is that the phrase was born in Civ2 where hardcore/real gamers dominated everything. Rape was used to describe getting totally obliterated with nothing you can do which so it's great fit here (it's even worse in Civ2 because of the 'entire stack is destroyed' rule.). It slide on through in Civ3. Under usual circumstances it would start being replaced in Civ4 and would not be relevant by Civ6. This didn't happen because Firaxis got rid of it in Civ4, by having units magically teleport out, so it's only talked about when Firaxis does something dumb. There's just not enough energy left to introduce a new phrase.

[TheHumanHydra]

Don't know the origin of the phrase, but some French-speaking civ community might be to blame for it, since "rape" = "violer" but "violer un accord" = "to break an agreement" with no sexual connotation whatsoever.
So it could simply be a poor word-for-word translation.

That said, genuinely feeling offended by it ? Really ?

That's plausible (and thanks for the further clarification, MJW).

And, yeah, for sure; I'm really surprised others aren't more. I'm super-frustrated by the actual incidence of sexual violence in the First World, especially among the 20-something male crowd that also happens to enjoy video games. I'd like society not to treat the word casually, so that no one is tempted to treat the deed casually.

None of us is guilty of rape, of course, and many of us aren't 20-somethings. But I think we're also canny enough to come up with a different word.

[Sullla]

MJW is incorrect on this one. "Right of Passage Rape" (RoP Rape) originated in Civ3, where Right of Passage agreements (essentially Open Borders) were created for the first time. Obviously no such agreement existed in Civ2 because there were no borders in Civ2. The idea behind this exploit was to sign the agreement, move all of your units next to the enemy capital and/or other crucial cities, then declare war and immediately capture them. There was nothing in Civ3's gameplay to stop this kind of heinous betrayal from occurring, and in fact the AI would repeatedly sign such deals after being violated again and again. I specifically remember this being used by other players in the Civ3 Game of the Month to capture the Great Library, which would instantly deliver all techs known by two other civs in the world.

Sirian put this on the exploit list for Civ3:

"RoP Rape": Using Right of Passage to move whole armies into attack position is an egregious exploit. The point being, the turn-based nature of the game in combination with this loophole in the rules offers a benefit way out of proportion to what even the most clever betrayal could ever hope to manage. No RoP Rapes in RBCiv Epics! This includes moving units into attack position then pulling some stunt to lead that civ to declare against you (like spy activity, or demanding they leave your territory) with the express intent of foiling the letter of this rule while still wholly pursuing the something-for-nothing spirit of this exploit. Don't go there.

And in Civ4, we specifically patched it out of the game's rules by teleporting attacking armies out of the enemy's borders when they declared war. As silly as the teleportation can be sometimes, it was a vast improvement over the Civ3 system. The term "Right of Passage Rape" was coined by the Civilization community at the time back in 2001. It's a regrettable and insensitive terminology, and hopefully if something similar appeared now, we would use a different phrasing.

For the record, the Persian movement boost in Civ6 (and Civ5) is nothing of the sort. The whole RoP rape concept was using enemy roads to move units right next to all their cities, and then sucker-punching the AI in one go. Adding additional movement points to your own units is ridiculously overpowered, but it's a completely different concept entirely.

[SadGit]

Blimey, 20 something gamers seem a lot more active than the first generation of gamers. But then again a lot more individuals are now contained in that term, and women being part of it probably "helps"

The challenge you face in keeping the word "rape" from being used casusally is that it does have a root that is not purely focused on the sexual act + force. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre might now be called that, but most older people know it by The Rape of Nanking".

Personally, I think that its less the use in sports and historical commentary that threatens to was out its connatations of Very Very Bad Act, but rather the expansion of its use in describing any and all acts of the slightest sexual character. Stare Rape as a description will lead to lower disgust at rape over time, including sexual act + force.


Sorry for going OT here, I still find Civ 6 to be like sex. Something to perhaps pass the time during a boring saturday, but not really something I wish to participate in. Yet strangely drawn to watching and reading about it.

[RefSteel]

Ugh, this belongs in the off-topic forum, but "stare rape" is a straw man, presumably invented for the exact purpose you describe. Poe's Law notwithstanding, the number of real-life feminists who use that term rounds to zero percent.

[Edit, to be clear: That purpose being to desensitize people to the term and reduce the impact of real terms like "date rape" in which sexual violation unquestionably occurs.]