[Spoiler] This is not Civ VI

[AdrienIer]

The distance maintenance is calculated by distance from cap/max possible distance between cities. For a given amount of tiles (a x*y map), the max distance in a flat map is (x²+y²)^1/2, on a cylindrical map it's ((x/2)²+y²)^1/2 and on a toroidal map it's ((x/2)²+(y/2)²)^1/2. Or maybe they use a different distance than the usual one. Anyway, the max possible distance on a toroid is smaller, therefore the distance maintenance is bigger. I could use one of the sandboxes to test out what the maintenance will approximately be.

Civic maintenance also depends on map size, but org will help with that.

The two major techs to keep the economy running are currency and CoL (and maybe MC if we don't ban the Colossus). Especially on this map with a lot of inter-continental trade routes. The idea will be to get to currency ASAP (gettting a second 2c TR in all cities will be a nice boost and we can then build wealth to help fund research). Then maybe CoL early to get our half priced courthouses. Of course getting a high commerce tile in line before that will help, but it won't be enough.

[Kaiser]

Thanks for the formulas and teh explication.

Did you already decide between Spain, India and Ottomans?
If not, do you have any idea on what measure you will base your decision?

[AdrienIer]

I haven't decided yet, but India has a headstart due to the FW. My decision will be : either the Spanish or Ottoman start is distinctly better than the Indian one, or India is better due to the FW getting better and better as time goes by. I intend to play with the sandboxes again today or tomorrow to decide.

[Kaiser]

Thanks for the input, I was playing today a bit with India and Frederik on a random archipelago map to get a better understanding how we play the game.

Aside from the fact that I am barely able to keep up with the monarch AI, I wonder what Indias game plan looks like. Turn the snowball into a tech lead and overrun somebody?

What would be the average worker city ratio for an island heavy map? I ended up with 5 workers on 12 cities but might have been on the low side.

[AdrienIer]

You were definitely on the low side. Even on an island map you want more than one worker per two cities. Probably 8 for 12 or more. More water means less tiles to improve with the FW but they also become tedious to move around so you don't want a lot less than in a normal game (approx 1 per city).

In the end it really depends on what Pindicator did with the map. Land heavy -> better FW. Smaller number of larger islands -> better FW.

The idea is to have such a good economic base that we get a tech lead. Then either a naval invasion with galleys or we wait for galleons. Astronomy will be a crucial tech.

[Kaiser]

Hm, funnily I pulled that off with a liberalism slingshot of astronomy. This was based on TGL and the Collossus I owned boosting me to #2 in GNP in my game. I am not sure that will be a likely game plan in a MP game xD

Spains and Ottomans game plan would then be tech fast to their UU and try to gain land then militarily?

[AdrienIer]

The game plan with any civ is to expand until you're almost broke, then control your economy once you have currency, then look for more opportunities to expand (ie wars). With India the initial expansion phase is stronger, with Ottomans you can grow bigger cities with Hammams then defend with janissaries (you don't want to attack with 1-movers, knights are the offensive weapon in that period). With Spain I wouldn't wait until conquistadores to attack someone. If someone is ripe for a knight rush or even a horse archer rush earlier in the game it's absolutely fine to attack.

I'm not used to war at sea. Because catapults can't attack from a ship they may be worse than in a normal game, which makes the spanish UB worse. On the other hand how can you attack longbows successfully ? I need to think about it.

[Kaiser]

I try another game with that strategy, that is a nice summary for me. Juast as what would you describe broke, because you stlll need to be able to reach Currency, right?

Why is the game played on Monarch difficulty, does it have any influence on the game when there are no AIs involved?

[AdrienIer]

Difficulty makes a difference for maintenance costs, amount of barbs and tech speed.

The idea is that you need to be able to make money on 0% research. Getting a +10gpt on 0% research when researching currency is the sweet spot (more than +10 is not a bad thing but don't restrain from building settlers until there).

[AdrienIer]

After playing with the sandboxes again I'm down to a choice between Spain and India. Pindicator if the others are waiting on my choice I'll take Frederick of India. If not I'll do some more testing tomorrow. Spain is slightly faster but the greatest strength of the FW comes in between the moment you put down your second city and the moment you get to currency. Then in a normal game they become great support units for wars, but probably less so on an island map.