RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Darkmantle]

I think you're agreeing with me?

Yeah I think I am in the end. I didn't understand enough about the nexus between research maintenance culture and espionage to keep my trap shut.

[zakalwe]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned The Mausoleum of Maussollos. (Whosit did, but he doesn't have Calendar yet I think).

I seem to recall that it was singled out as an important wonder by Spullla early on, but they never mentioned it after actually discovering Calendar.

[T-hawk]

Mausoleum is good, but not as hot in multiplayer. Against AIs, if you've gotten Mausoleum, you're probably 90% or so likely to also get the Taj Mahal. Not so in multiplayer, especially when other teams are aware of and looking to deny the synergy, as RB did to PAL in the Apolyton game.

And the payback horizon of Mausoleum is extremely long. First, it doesn't do anything at all until the 9th turn of your next golden age. And it's no more than equivalent to the Taj (which is good but not overpowering) until the 9th turn of your third golden age. For 450 hammers, you can build eight macemen instead and get more benefit by conquering with them.

[WilliamLP]

> For 450 hammers, you can build eight macemen instead and get more benefit by conquering with them.

225 with marble, which is 15 hammers over three macemen. You also force other players to prioritize Taj (if they wouldn't have done so anyway this can only be an advantage.) There's also the denial value to other teams for the rest of the game.

[Elkad]

Is there any way to "observe" a game?

By this I mean enter the game and have visibility on everything, but with chat and other ways to contact the players disabled.

Well.. The host could put a second copy of the game up, replacing the copied save with the new one from the real game at each new turn. And then give the admin password to lurkers.

Potential for abuse is even higher than secretly reading spoiler threads, as a dishonest civ could check out all their rivals directly. I'd imagine some information doesn't make the spoiler threads (and some civs (including me in PB1) don't update their threads at all).

[Elkad]

Mausoleum is good, but not as hot in multiplayer. Against AIs, if you've gotten Mausoleum, you're probably 90% or so likely to also get the Taj Mahal. Not so in multiplayer, especially when other teams are aware of and looking to deny the synergy, as RB did to PAL in the Apolyton game.

And the payback horizon of Mausoleum is extremely long. First, it doesn't do anything at all until the 9th turn of your next golden age. And it's no more than equivalent to the Taj (which is good but not overpowering) until the 9th turn of your third golden age. For 450 hammers, you can build eight macemen instead and get more benefit by conquering with them.

One of the wonders with a pretty high potential for abuse in MP actually. We had a situation at Tactical Gamer in the Fog of War game where Mausoleum got built in a minor city. The city was then gifted to several allied civs in a single turn, each of whom started an extended GA. Cristo Redentor is also a good candidate for this kind of abuse. We ended up making a rule against temporary gifting of cities altogether. (Permanent transfers are OK)

So if you are willing to game the game (and a rule hasn't been made against it), it can pay off rather quickly.

[MJW (ya that one)]

I spy with my little eye, something beginning with P!

I'm 90% sure it is Plako and Dantski is giving Whosit a warning...

[Cyneheard]

So if you are willing to game the game (and a rule hasn't been made against it), it can pay off rather quickly.

After some city-gifting abuse in the early go in PB1 (mostly to get cheap buildings), it's been banned in all PB games. Besides the Oracle in a tech-trading game, there aren't a lot of "team" wonders (I guess the Hit series wonders count).

I am surprised that Dantski did that. But, then again, who knows what type of game Dantski's trying to play...

[Rowain]

But, then again, who knows what type of game Dantski's trying to play...

Nobody maybe not even Dantski himself

[BobRoberts]

He might mean Praetorians?

It does seem an odd thing to say though... could it be another 'Krondor' moment?