Singaboy and Sullla's team thread

[Sullla]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if it was better to promote the slinger immediately or to hold the promotion for the healing. I think that I might have fortified in place for this turn to get the immediate (buggy) +6 strength bonus, then promoted on the following turn to remove the damage from the initial attack. It's over and done with now though, and with luck the unit will survive. This is a good example of why slingers don't make great exploration units in Civ6. That 5 melee strength makes them extremely fragile if anything can get next to them. Anyway, hopefully the unit lives and if not, we'll still be OK.

I will send over the new horses resource on my turn. Should have thought to do that after capturing the city state. I also like the idea to get a horseman out of Quangzhou after the current settler, and a builder out of the Chinese capital with Ilkum policy slotting in after the current shrine finishes. We could potentially use that builder for these tiles:



Plantation on the sugar resource for +2 gold and another amenity, and then chop/mine potential on both the forested hill and jungle hill tiles. The forested hill would stay at 1/3 yield while the jungle hill would become 1/3 yield, which is better for Hangzhou since it needs more production. Ideally, we'd use Agoge overflow on a warrior (or better yet Limes overflow on city walls but that's unlikely to be available yet) and channel that into the Campus districts. Or if it's too much trouble we could simply chop into the Campus districts, which would knock out a good portion of the cost. Still, always better to pair chopping/harvesting with a production modifier if at all possible. Lots of options here for using a builder.

Modo: to answer your first question, yes, captured builders come with the same number of charges that they had before capture. The Pyramids grant a one-time bonus of +1 charge to all active workers at the time it was built, and then any future builders get the +1 charge as well at the time that they finish in the production queue. China having the Pyramids does nothing to affect Rome in any way. Your second question is also correct, overflow production in Civ6 is not reduced based on the multipliers from the previous item being built. If I'm building walls with the +100% production card, and I invest a 30 production forest chop into that build when the walls are sitting at 79/80 production, I get 59 production overflowed into the next item regardless of what it is. Civ4 did the opposite and divided out the production modifiers for overflow, which was a less intuitive but more accurate way to handle the situation. This makes the +100% policy cards very powerful items that should be leveraged heavily while playing. Limes + Ancient city walls is a one-time opportunity to get a giant chopping/harvesting bonus into a city. Done properly, a stone harvest pretty much = a new district. This also makes coastal cities better than originally thought, since the coastal cities (or a city with a harbor) can make use of the +100% naval unit policy cards to the same effect. Galleys are a cheap build at only 50 production and I plan to use galley overflow abuse pretty heavily at Venezia to get stuff built there.

Good questions. Looking forward to playing my next turn in a few hours.

[Singaboy]

In hindsight, I should have fortified the slinger . I am not sure what I was early in the morning. Later on, I tried to recheck my calculations and found out, it was just stupid.

Oh, there is no hurry for the horses, I am only starting to build them in 4 turns when Mil Tradition is done and Maneuver enabled. Having Agoge enabled might be a bit difficult. How about producing another builder and chopping those tiles using Ilkum. That would also enable the second builder to go for Mahabodi right away and get those Apostles out.

Now that you have secured Buenos Aires aka Venezia, are you planning to send some archers east for fog busting. Might also be a good idea to get some archers west to help out fog busting over at my side.

[Sullla]

That's a good idea; you could train the first builder with Ilkum, then train a second one to near-completion and chop at the 30% production overflow bonus. I think that would take the chopping bonus from about 40-45 production up to about 55 production, and that's worth a good chunk of that Campus district. And we're going to need two builders out of Hangzhou anyway, one for tile improvements in the area and one for the Mahabodi.

I will be sending you three archers with the intention of helping capture Antananarivo. I think we should aim for roughly Turn 60-65 to attack that city state and incorporate it into China. That means we should send the first missionary out of Hangzhou west and use it to convert Shangdu, Antananarivo, and Chinese city #4. With luck, we'll have the Mahabodi done and Crusade in place when we launch the attack, which would make it a piece of cake. You can send the second missionary (which will be right on the heels of the first one) over to Rome to start converting my cities.

I plan to use one archer to fogbust around Roman city #5 where we have a patch of missing tiles, and send a warrior off to explore the southeast. The biggest exploring is going to come from galleys though; Venezia will start churning them out with Maritime Industries shortly. I think one to go east, one to go west, and one to head due south. Depending on what we find, the next Roman cities might be getting planted on other continents.

[Modo]

Hypothetical question: since China has the Pyramids could you guys set up at some point a Chinese builder pump so that instead of Rome building it's own workers China could build them for Rome and gift them? Assuming that a gifted Chinese worker retains the extra charge, that is.

Also too bad Firaxis did not learn the lessons from the past, lining up several cheap items with high production multiplier cards can potentially inflate a chop into huge future production. Much like using UR planets in MOO1 for reserve building since they amplify their own output so well.
Already imagining T-Hawk producing one turn spaceship parts because he could set up an overflow amplification production chain several turns before the tech is discovered and funneling chops into it.

[Sullla]

This is not Civ4, you cannot gift units from one civilization to another.

[Sullla]

This was a much less eventful turn.



In the aftermath of the battle at Buenos Aires, my archers began heading northwest on the long trek towards Antananarivo. I'm sending three of them to help Singaboy when we attack that spot, and hopefully with a horseman + his healed warrior in the north + the possible inclusion of Crusade belief at a converted city state, we should be able to capture it in about 15 turns. The injured archer on the horses tile stopped this turn to heal, and I'll keep that guy around for barb defense in this area and potential fog busting in that area in the west by the cows and the truffles. That archer should have time to reveal what's hiding there. The damaged warrior (who is almost up to enough XP for a second promotion) will rest in the captured city for the time being. I did remember to rename it to Venezia this turn, but not until after taking the screenshots, heh. I have two more warriors about to pop out of Roma and Ostia, and I'll send the new warriors off to scout the southeast, with the promoted warrior healing up and then prepared to defend against incoming barbs wherever they appear.

City micro: Venezia will finish repairing its monument between turns, then repair its granary over the following two turns. I have it on max production setup right now (working the two pastures and then a 1/3 forested plains hill tile borrowed from over at Ostia) because there's no sense in emphasizing food until the granary is done. The granary and the two pastures lets the city grow to size 5 before hitting the housing penalty again, and there are enough strong tiles here that I want to get up to size 5 quickly. The +1 food from the granary will take the city up to a total food surplus of +5 with the cows, horses, and 2/2 jungle tile, not bad for a coastal spot. So three more total turns until the monument/granary repairs are done, and then it's time to start cranking out galleys for a little while.

Ostia is in a similar situation, holding at max production / no growth for now while waiting on the arrival of a water mill to start growing once more. I'll be able to land the boost for Wheel tech on Turn 56, which is just about the same point in time that we'll have the gold available to cash-rush the watermill in Ostia for another boost. It sucks to hold the city on low food status for half a dozen turns, but working low-production tiles to grow at +2 food/turn would just be silly. Ostia is taking a warrior to 38/40 production status this turn. The builder I captured is then going to chop the forest tile southeast of the city center, with the chop overflow going into the Campus district, in the same fashion as my capital. I decided to use the 1-charge builder for that forest chop because I want to drop Agoge policy for a while, and I've set up that chop to be used with Agoge. I'm going to delay the finishing of Games and Recreation civic by 1 turn by swapping to Mysticism next turn. That will allow me to keep Mysticism civic one turn away from completion while slowly researching Defensive Warfare. It's a lot safer to research something that has a 10 turn research time if you can have a free civics swap in your back pocket for emergencies.

So to summarize: Games and Recreation civic this turn, swap to Mysticism without finishing it next turn, back to Games and Recreation finishing end of turn 53, and then swapping Agoge for Maritime Industries and Land Surveyors for Ilkum on Turn 54. Then galleys from Venezia and builders from my other cities for the next few turns, with another wave of settlers starting around Turn 65.



Roma is working on its Campus and will get the Agoge-boosted forest chop next turn. I think it will take 3 more total turns to complete based on my best guess; the Campus will be at 30/107 production at the end of this turn, and the chop should be worth 45 base / 67 modified production if I've done the math correctly. So maybe just one more turn after this one then? That would certainly be nice. I could get started on more builders a bit sooner. (Maybe I won't end up delaying Games and Recreation by a turn!)

At Firenze, the builder improved the horses and my warrior was not shot again by the barbarian quinquireme. Swapping the cattle tile for the horses tile delays growth by a turn, so the city remains on the same tiles as before, growing to size 3 in three more turns.



In the span of a single turn, I went from having no horses to having 2 horse resources. I sent one of them over to Singaboy so that he could train horsemen at Quangzhou after the current settler finishes.



Remember how we were discussing score last turn? This is the result now that the numbers have updated properly (although my capital grew this turn so Rome actually has 60 points). We're significantly out in front of everyone, with Singaboy lapping the field and my own Rome scoring higher than everyone other than EmperorK's Russia. Singaboy's score is a bit inflated from his wonders and religion, but EmperorK's score is even more inflated: 12 points instead of the normal 6 points from his two Lavras, 4 points from religion, and 6 points for Great People (the Great Prophet and his recent Great Writer). Obviously all those points do matter since Russia gained tangible benefits from them, but Singaboy and EmperorK are both not quite as far ahead as their scores make it seem. And I'm very pleased to be noticeably ahead of TheArchduke's Germany at the moment.

That said, there was a significant score change this turn: both Russia and Germany saw their population drop a point. They've both finished settlers and will be planting their third cities soon. That's no surprise and for me the biggest question is why they weren't faster to their third cities. Singaboy managed to get out three wonders with China's unique ability and still get to three cities faster than them. I'll be hitting five cities in 2 turns and Singaboy isn't far away from his fourth city. Chevalier Mal Fet is the only other player with a third city out on the map right now. I really don't know what's going on with Woden or Japper or Cornflakes - especially Cornflakes.

Oh, and we did drop to last place in military score this turn. Dangerous place to be, but I have two warriors and then a bunch of galleys completing to help with that number, plus my injured units will be healing back to full and therefore "going up" in strength rating. We'll need to watch the power rankings closely but I think we're OK since we still haven't met anyone else as yet.

[Sullla]

I wanted to split off this district planning for the south into a separate post. Here's the long term goal in that area:



By packing the districts together like this, they all benefit from the shared adjacency bonuses with one another. It's not quite as good as if I were playing as Japan, but even the half adjacency bonuses add up over time. Eventually all of the wheat tiles are slated for harvesting... eventually. I'll likely build farms on all of them first to grow these cities up to larger sizes, plus I need 6 farms for the Feudalism boost in the nearish future and these grain resources are the best places for that. (Two farms at the capital plus the three wheat tiles here plus the rice tile at Ostia.) I'll mostly be constructing the Campuses first, then the Commercial districts, hopefully with some of them discounted, and then the Industrial district... with luck, all or nearly all of them discounted. Every Roman city also gets its own Bath district, a cheap way to blow past the normal housing limits.

This will probably take about 80 turns to complete. Always better to have a district plan ahead of time though.

[hzhp800]

Can builders build improvements for teammates or can builders only perform actions in their own civ's territory?

[Singaboy]

The turn won't reach me before going to work.

I have one question, how come you are/can build a monument in Venezia when you are Rome? Aren't you supposed to have free monuments or does that exclude conquered cities?

[Sullla]

hzhp800, as far as I know builders can only take builder actions within their own cultural territory. We'll have to test at some point if they can do their work in an ally's territory; I'm about 90% convinced that the answer is "no" though.

Singaboy, Rome's civ ability creates a free monument when new cities are settled. It doesn't have any effect on captured cities, although fortunately monuments are easy to repair.