Major update next turn, (ie tomorrow), but offered DoF to Alhambram. Couldn't offer it to Jester, but it should have been up this turn. I will send next turn. I didn't want to send the DoF to Alhambram until after I had it with Jester, but Pin has seen the units fighting barbs and his galley will slow down moving two settlers to the peninsula. I don't want him to get peace with Alhambram, so anything I can do to keep them at war and keep Pin away from throwing knights at me is good.
I need to re-evaluate my aims for this game. I have said I don't expect to win, and I still don't but I think it would be unfair to the other players to dick around. So I need to consider some of the strategic implications of my choices. First up, what is the current game state? It is a 3 player game with a complicating factor (Jester)
Pin has DotF and America continent bonus, so is basically unassailable except through a large science advantage. Alhambram has Jesuit education and ability to build a science advantage. I...have nothing much that helps me except a wildcard slot. Ah, Zen Meditation...not quite the belief of the other two. I suppose, if I have the opportunity to make a meat grinder, I have a great source of culture, but it's not like that helps me to win. I think the only advantage I have is that I have teh best opportunity to take over Jester and gain an economic advantage. So basically, Pin is in a position to prefer attacking Alhambram over me, notwithstanding tech advantage, Alhambram wants to attack me or Jester, and I want peace and the opportunity to attack and take over Jester, then use that economic advantage to cripple Alhambram and force a concession. Well, Alhambram would like the opportunity to take over jester and then cripple me so to avoid confrontation with Pin on his ground. In this scenario, it's actually in Pins interest to keep Jester strong and in one piece.
So what happens if I settle all these cities and just try to stay isolationist and put off attacking Jester and defend against Pin and Alhambram? Does Alhambram get the better deal with Madrassa's and Jesuit education as Pins beliefs fall by the wayside? How does Pin win in that scenario? Further expansion, but only options are Alhambram or myself unless he has a lot of back lines to still settle. He is already much more vertical in growth than I am (I have 1 library and 2 markets, plus a barracks).
Actually, if I can get a DoF with Pin, I might put him in a position where he has to keep on fighting Alhambram.
Pin is keeping an eye on these units. Sensible precaution, 2 Xbows, and a horsemen can fuyck you around but aren't going to threaten cities. he has no niter visible in diplomacy, I've rebuffed his DoF, and he has niter close to his capital he obviously wants to settle. He has units away fighting Alhambram and likely does not have much at his core. He knows there are barbs present, so I can be hunting for gold, and culture. He does not know that I plan to settle this area.
Options: I'm bringing the galley back to cover the settlers as they travel over. Xbows will wreck his galley if they are in range, so he can slow me down, but can't stop me. The earliest he can see the settlers is T123. I need to decide if I offer him a DoF next turn, T122 then, because after that I seriously doubt he lets me have one. If I don't get DoF, I need to be wary that he attacks city 10, or fucks me about with that Great Merchant he has wandering around, if he understands where I want to settle.
But there might be a problem:
Rome is making 2 GS points per turn now. Pin needs 29 points, so less than 650 gold to recruit Galileo. I forgot about gold patronage. Moron. That could be up to 1K beakers, or 20 turns worth of research to Pin, and at that point I don't see how anyone can realistically slow Pin down. Pin has 568 gold in the bank, so...I don't know if he can recruit Galileo or not. IF he does recruit him and gets 1K beakers, then it depends on eurekas. Cav will kill everyone, but they require 845 for Mil Sci, 660 for Siege Tactics, and 540 for Printing. Castles are 390. Pin must have the eurekas for Printing (2 Universities) and Castles (6 slot government) and Mil Sci (he has killed a unit with a knight) so those three techs cost 887 beakers. If he has Printing and Castles already (Wouldn't surprise me) then he just needs 660 science for Siege Tactics and 422 for Mil Sci. Which basically means he would immediately have Cav. Just 4 horsemen lying around and I think Alhambram would get broken. And I know I would.
With this in mind...I think I'll be offering a DoF 30 turns is 30 turns, I don't see how I could be in a worse position after those 30 turns that I would be now if he grabs Galileo. And if he doesn't...well, he can't stop me settling the peninsula. I think this is the right thing to do from the point of self preservation. Depending on that DoF, I can also adjust my build plans. I still need units, but I can build them in the most efficient manner rather than as a crash project.
Anyway, end of turn shot from the peninsula:
Two dead swords and the Spear is down to 45 health. With any luck, the chariot will be attacked and gain some XP and I can heal the injured Xbow, shoot the spear with the healthy Xbow and leave the horseman to heal from 34hp. Horseman has 11XP, the chariot has 4XP. I think there is at least one more sword in this area.
The lack of forests at city 8 also makes me think that DoF is good, as it becomes much more difficult to chop out the walls and Encampment.
With the recruitment of hte GP next turn, I get an envoy in Carthage which should give me an additional 3 production per turn. This might make the settler compelte two fast, so likely to have to move off a hill min to the market to lose the hammers. If I get DoF with Pin, then straight Settler>Holy Site>Builder*2. If not, toying with slotting in a chariot before the builders. But then what use are knights against cavalry when your GG doesn't function anymore?
OK, timing. Finish settler eot with minimal overflow. With HUmanism now showing as a 6 turn civi I will only have veterancy for 5 turns. I need to max hammers, taking the deer. That pushes production to 20.9 with amenities and 27.1 with Veterancy, fo a total of 135 production by eot126, for the Armoury to be completed eot129. That means I can't finish Gunpowder until eot130, and at 270 science needed, I can start research on T126. Stirrups is so close to being finished, that finishing Stirrups counts as a turn towards Gunpowder. So I must finish Stirrups T126.
Fuck. That means I can't build chariots.
OK, let's stretch our legs a bit. Assuming I got DoF, I need to work out what I need in those 30 turns to be able to defend against the other players and potentially attack Jester.
Can I reach Infantry in 30 turns? If I hit every eureka except for Education, I would need an average of 90 science per turn. I'm currently at 57.8 Add in a university, 1 new campus, Natural Philosophy and 3 bought libraries, that pushes me to...77.8, ignoring amenity bonuses. assuming 5 pop in the new cities and no growth in current cities (on the low end but being careful), that gives a further 17.5 science, for over 90. So Yeah, that's probably possible. What about Tanks instead? Problem there is Steel, as the eureka for that requires a coal mine and an ironclad, which with the corresponding eurekas, needs 1177 science from Mass Production, Industrialization and Steam Power. So I don't think that is possible in 30 turns.
So I know that if I focus, I can get to Infantry. That doesn't stop Pin reaching Tanks in 30 turns, but baby steps.
If I get the DoF, chariots become less useful because they will not upgrade to anything relevant. I'll still want a far few but I'll just have to suck up the loss and keep the 3 that I have. With Gunpowder due as early as eot130, and no second Iron until T130...yeah, this isn't going to work. I can't build swords to upgrade unless I delay Gunpowder. And delaying Gunpowder means I have to commit to rushing Infantry, because I have to allocate research to either the branch that leads to Infantry, or the Branch that leads to cav, Steel and Tanks. I could put science into Banking, Education and Astronomy to delay Gunpowder to build 4-6 swords or more.
Whatever, this isn't relevant to VV. What is relevant, is that after an Armoury, what should it build? A builder? It might not have time? Then a library? I need a univeristy and 3 libraries for Rationalism (+100% yield from campus buildings) for it to be better than Natural Philosophy (+100% yield from campus adjacency bonus). But I'm likely to run both the more I think about it. Either way I want libraries and Universities. A builder or a library. One or the other.
OK, options: If I'm rushing to Replaceable Parts for Infantry, then after the campus I need libraries, builders and universities. I need this harbour though, so I suppose I interrupt a library build with the discounted harbour, placed ASAP. I'll need a shipyard here as well for Steam Power eureka. And a workshop for the Industrialization eureka. MOnument wouldn't go a miss either but there are only three third ring tiles I care about and I need to push science not culture.
Actually, I need a sixth settler, for the desert hill and niter. So I will need to plan that out.
Fuck. I'm going to buy it, aren't I, rather than use colonization for a single settler. Fuck me. This seems wrong but it's also the right option because otherwise I can't build muskets except in VV, or peninsula cities that have no production. Anyway, onwards.
Notwithstanding an insane idea to spend 1000 gold on a settler, I was planning to buy the library here. I'm slow building the catapult, but would need to mine the hill to ensure I got it before I could build a Bombard for the Siege Tactics Eureka, but that seems less relevant with this report and Pindicators potential shenanigans. I still want to buy those two hill tiles but I don't see that happening any more.
Note: Subsequently I bought the library this turn and started to work it, pushing my science up to 62.2.
OK, now I need to think about the changes to chariot usage. I can't build horsemen here until T132 at the earliest, the settler is completed eot122, and then dumping production into the builder for three turns. Need new production T126. Can't place Holy Site until jungle is chopped, and need a production modifier to get the hammers out.
Am I intending to swap into Maneuver still on T127? (Humanism has moved up a turn). No. I can't build chariots, and I can't build horsemen until T132. So I don't even have to buy the second horse tile.
New plan: Buy the iron tile at SS, mine it T130. Produce swords in MS and SS. Give up on the chop multiplier except through Limes. Swords cost 90 production, therefore take 5 turns to build at both SS and MS without overflow. Gives me 4 swords total, so I have enough to upgrade to muskets to give the eureka for Replaceable Parts. I can delay Gunpowder slightly to facilitate this without affecting tech time to Replaceable Parts. Chop out the sword in MS, and then immediately replace with discounted Holy Site. Build a workshop in the downtime after builder is close to completion, as This is a Factory site as it covers CS, MS, SS, Scombridae and City 10.
Note: At this point I stepped away from the PC to work through this problem. Some of my thinking has since changed, but I want to rush Replaceable Parts not just because I see it as a viable option, but also to see if it's just possible. It took me an hour to figure this out and it's not perfect.
By my calculations, Acropolis is finished eot123 and then production is dumped into a catapult. I would dump it into a builder but I think I have too much overflow, and I want two cats for the bombard eureka anyway. I might not be able to get the Worker completed until eot128 due to this but whatever, that would push back the iron hook up until T131. This is fine.
OK, OK, OK /Owen Wilson
Replaceable Parts. Steel. Combustion. Flight. I'm aiming for the Modern Era, how quickly can I get there?
Very Fast.
1 Campus in process of being built. 2 more libraries, 2 universities. Built Campus is 2 science. 2 libraries being worked is 8 science. 2 Universities are 8 science. Natural Philosophy is worth 8 science per turn, Rationalism is worth 8 science without the universities, 16 with.
I can get most of a university in CS via Forest chop through Limes ancient walls. And the libraries at VV and EF take 4 turns to build so can be built naturally, leaving just one more university to build or buy for 1000 gold. I haven't built ancient walls at EF either, and there is a second ring forest at City 7 that can be given to EF. And that forest tile would be either 2nd, 3rd or 4th tile claimed by the city that will have a chopped Acropolis (buy the marsh, claim iron naturally).
Altogether, I can get up to 104 science with just those two cards and those campus improvements. So can I average 90 science per turn? Yes. Emphatically.
Offer an Alliance to Jester next turn. I then need roughly 360 culture to finish Humanism, all 655 to finish Mercantilism and 327 to finish The Enlightenment. Inspiration for The Enlightenment is due T135. Expecting revolts T127, but should I rush for Triangular Trade or should I instead rush for Rationalism? Science wins out over faith here. I will be chopping at least 2 acropolis and buying 3 monuments by my reckoning. That pushes culture to about 75 along with the resource harvests. Diplomatic Services T130, The enlightenment can be completed T135 by the inspiration. So I aim to have as many of the universities down by that turn. Campus and libraries are easy.
Limes can be in place on T127. CS can just dump one turns production into the walls and at present is going to claim the forest by T125. That can be chopped by the first builder out and that is the university complete before T135. How about the second university? Right now I'm going to assume I buy the forest tile, in which case...Campus eot129, library eot133, with no space for walls. So consider buying this library, using walls and chopping T131 for at least 180 production, that should work, but I'm expecting to spend at least 450 gold to do this. Plus spending 330 on a builder at city 7, buying 3 monuments for 600 and buying those tiles. Although without having to buy that horse tile, all that's changed as well. Only need to buy 5 or so tiles by T135 now...so actually I might have enough gold. I need to squeeze in a second builder though.
So, with Humanism, swap into Limes/Trade Confederation/Meritocracy/Charismatic Leader/Serfdom/Natural Philosophy/Conscription (Conscription saves as much gold as Caravansaries makes, amenities would modify that to be slightly better, but with new units being produced it makes that better IMO. Very close though).
In fact, the only stumbling block I see is being able to build 2 banks. And I do need to buy that shrine at CS, but hey, I'll fit that in somehow...
To be clear, I think the above plan has too many holes in it, but IF Pin gets into a position to field Cav in the next 5 turns, he can poke however many holes he wants into anyones' plan. If he doesn't get Galileo, then...well, I can breathe easily, and I can use this as a method of building a tech lead, and creating a window with which I can take out Jester in 30 odd turns. But if he does, I don't see a way to haul back a 1K science lead in 30 turns. I'll focus on turtling.
(March 2nd, 2018, 09:00)Krill Wrote: To be clear, I think the above plan has too many holes in it, but IF Pin gets into a position to field Cav in the next 5 turns, he can poke however many holes he wants into anyones' plan. If he doesn't get Galileo, then...well, I can breathe easily, and I can use this as a method of building a tech lead, and creating a window with which I can take out Jester in 30 odd turns. But if he does, I don't see a way to haul back a 1K science lead in 30 turns. I'll focus on turtling.
So in civ6 defending by numbers is not an option anymore.And reading all your plans make my head hurts.
Quick back of the envelope calculations, taking into account natural tile claims over next 20 turns
CS: 3 mines
VV: Chop and 3 mines
EF: Chop and farm (towards the end of the 20 turns due to water tiles)
Scom: Mine
MS: Chop
SS: Chop and 2 mines
Total: 14 charges on core cities
City 7: 3 second ring tile buys, 2 chops, 3 mines, farm, pasture. 2 farms wanted. (immediate need: 7), 2 delayed. LS tile buy cost: 300
City 8: 2 second ring tile buys, 1 farm, 1 chop, 1 camp. (immediate need: 3). LS tile buy cost: 200
City 9: 2 second ring tile buys, 1 third ring. 1 chop, 2 mines, 1 plantation. (immediate need: 4), 1 delayed. LS tile buy cost: 350
City 10: 3 second ring tile buys, 1 chop, 2 plantation, 3 mine. (immediate need: 4), 2 delayed. LS tile buy cost: 300
City 11: 4 second ring tile buys(?!), 1 third ring tile buy, 1 pasture, 1 resource harvest, 3 farms, 3 mines. (immediate need: 6), 2 delayed. LS tile buy cost: 550
Total immediate need: 24, delayed need: 7
I need to prioritise, but 2 builders from CS, 1 each from MS, SS and Scom gives 30, with bought builders in City 7 and City 8 I should be able to make it work. Could always try to squeeze out a builder from EF before Serfdom is rotated out and SS should be able to get another one as well. The main issue is buying tiles. With Land Surveyors and current costs that is 1700 gold, that's just not going to happen. In some cases the tile picker should pick the wanted tiles naturally, buying a monument is cheaper (200 gold, cost of 2 tiles which I would then get over next 15 turns). Need to work this out. Some just can't be delayed though. The Horse, the iron, the niter?
Recalculating the number of tile buys wanted to work out the amount of gold I may need to spend.
City 7: Marsh harvest, forest for EF university. 2 second ring tiles.
City 8: Encampment district tile. 1 second ring tile
City 9: Encampment district tile (alternate location to minimize gold cost). 1 second ring tile.
City 10: Entertainment district tile. 1 second ring tile.
City 11: Wheat harvest. 1 second ring tile.
Massive reduction. 6 second ring tiles, plus the third ring iron tile at SS. But I will need to buy monuments at cities 8, 9 and 10, with chopped Acropolis at cities 7 and 11. All of those tile buys, except the marsh at City 7, can't happen until after T130 and diplomatic service is completed. The marsh harvest can wait until then as well: use the bought builder to chop the forest for the Acropolis first. Easy option: Get Diplomatic service eot130, swap out Serfdom for Land Surveyors, then finish The Enlightenment eoT135 after taking the Great Admiral for the third great person. I will still finish the builders from CS, MS, SS and Scom on those turns plus one bought builder.
Between this turn and eot126 I should generate 660 gold, plus 140 saved already. 800 gold total. Between T127 and T130 I should generate a further 500 gold with Conscription in place.
With Land Surveyors I should be able to buy those 6 tiles for 100 gold a piece for the second ring tiles and a further 150 for the third ring SS iron. 750 gold. 550 left. Builder costs 350. 200 gold left. 1. Also need a shrine to buy missionaries (well, 1 missionary). Shrine can wait. That works, I can buy the monument at city 10.
So the gold will be spent on buying 6 second ring tiles, 1 third ring tile, 1 builder, 1 monument and everything else is sacrificed to growth.
This gives 5 builders total. I expect to go back into Serfdom once The Enlightenment civic is completed to finish more builders, but I'll work out what I can do with 30 charges. At least 6 of them get blown on city 7, the same number on city 11 as they both get resource harvested to size 5 or so. But it is manageable.
A thought occurs: If I expect to finish Diplomatic service eot130, I can omit Limes until then and keep on using Craftsmen for a few more turns.
Well, at least I have a plan.
Edit: Those gold numbers are for what I have on hand T131. Some of these cities are not settled until T132: Due to this there is an opportunity to maximize efficiency some more. By T135 for instance I could have a further 2 monuments and the shrine bought so all new cities would have either Acropolis or monuments in place. Also I want to delay buying the tiles for the encampments at cities 8 and 9 if the cost will not increase so I can buy monuments instead,to get a littel mroe culture.
Education is due eot125. Options are to then research Astronomy for 5 turns (up to 330 research) or go Stirrups>Banking or Stirrups>Gunpowder. If I have DoF with Pin, then I need to plan around Banks as I need to build two banks for the eureka for Economics. CS can build one bank in 10 turns, but second bank likely needs to be bought at MS. Although MS can make 20 production per turn, so with enough time can build it as well. Also likely to just dump one or two rain forests in.
CS will be busy with builders and university until T135. MS will be busy with a workshop after a sword and finishing a builder until around then. Banking is a 4 turn tech by that point, so can realistically wait. So need to hold techs in reserve until I need them to reset the district discount.
Thoughts: Education eot125. Astronomy eot126-129. Stirrups eot130. Banking eot134. Gunpowder eot137. Bring Gunpowder forward if I decide to capture Lisbon (but this time frame probably works best). Need to either push gunpowder back as far as possible and through out as many swords as feasible, or rush another settler for the second niter. Probably need to grab the niter and use Feudal Contract. Need 1000 gold to get the settler...
Culture:
Culture doesn't need much pushing. Either 6 new cities, 3 Acropolis, bought monuments and Meritocracy I think by T130 culture will be well over 80 and pushing 90 or even 100 culture per turn. Mercantilism should be a 7 turn civic at that point, without the inspiration and at that point, I don't see anything pressing that is more worthy of attention than not dying.
