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Singaboy and Sullla's team thread

This starts to remind me of MOO1, saving faith and gold to insta pop (maybe not just that but still pretty strong) an army wherever. Kind of the threat being stronger than the execution thing.
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One of the biggest features of MoO1 is that you can't insta-pop a navy or a pile of missile bases wherever you want. You have to build them up in advance, as rushing production can only double the existing production on a planet.
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(April 2nd, 2018, 13:11)Kofiman Wrote: One of the biggest features of MoO1 is that you can't insta-pop a navy or a pile of missile bases wherever you want.  You have to build them up in advance, as rushing production can only double the existing production on a planet.

You can get around that (particularly in the early game) by designing a huge ship that's as expensive as you can make it. Sink your ship production into these, but make sure never to finish one. If you need a fleet in an emergency, simply switch production over to a cheaper (and actually useful) design, and next turn you'll have all that stored up production converted into the new ship type.
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That doesn't help with missile bases or other production though. Strategy is the only answer.

You guys should totally continue this discussion over in the MoO forum! We are just now in the process of kicking off a new Succession Game [/shamelessplug]

And now back to your regularly scheduled PBEM!
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When the cats are away....
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...the Klackons will steal all of their planets.
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Yeah, I'm still here waiting the next turn. smile It was nice having the weekend off for Easter, and I had time to play some other games for a change. While this PBEM game has been a lot of fun, I won't be too sad when it's over since it does eat up so much time. While we're waiting on Japper to play his next turn, let me throw out some thoughts on the big strategic issue that we'll have to confront in the near future. Do we continue with our potential plan to attack England/Nubia around Turn 125-130, or look to sign a Declaration of Friendship with them and try to attack Russia/Germany instead?

Attack England/Nubia

I'll lay out the "Pro" case first. The basic idea would be to launch a timing attack around the acquisition of cavalry and frigates. Rome builds Venetian Arsenal around Turn 122/123, instantly finishing five quadriremes that become ten quadriremes on the next turn. Along with the two quadriremes already finished, they become a full dozen frigates already out on the map on Turn 125. Meanwhile, China uses its massive faith income to keep purchasing one horseman per turn, setting up a giant horseman into cavalry upgrade that comes online at the same time. We hit England/Nubia with 12 frigates and 6 caravels at sea, combined with the current Roman army + a dozen Chinese cavalry on land. The naval force should be almost unopposed based on what we've been seeing thus far, and it would have the goal of capturing Nan Madol, razing Valletta, and razing every English city on the eastern ocean. If this operation went as planned, England would be crippled as a naval power and the eastern ocean secured for the rest of the game. We could then shift the Roman fleet into another ocean and use it to pressure Russia/Germany, perhaps sailing north of our continent and then joining up with the Chinese navy to raid the Germany and Russian northern coast. We could never do that so long as England remains a power in the eastern ocean, so the thinking is to remove England's coastal presence completely, then send the navy off to raid the rest of the map.

On land, the whole idea would be to have mass cavalry before England/Nubia had the appropriate units to defend. If Nubia can't make it to field guns, then it would be a one-sided slaughter. Crossbows have 30 base melee strength while cavs have 62 base melee strength - that's a one-shot kill right there. Of course it wouldn't be that easy in practice, not with Chinese Great Generals and terrain advantage and so on, but the fact remains that cavs with 5 movement points can easily chase down crossbows with 2 or 3 movement points. The Nubian units would fall very quickly unless they could reach field guns. However, field guns aren't that difficult of a tech to research and there's a very good chance that Nubia could have it ready by Turn 130. Cavs would likely get slaughtered by field guns and that would cause our whole plan to fall apart.

The worst case scenario would see us falling into a bloody stalemate, or even a losing war, in the former Khmer and Kongo territories while Russia/Germany sits back and runs away with the game. If Russia/Germany are our most fearsome opponents, shouldn't we be working together to defeat them, not England/Nubia? Furthermore, signing a Declaration of Friendship with England/Nubia would not stop us from attacking Nan Madol and Valetta, their pet city states. Our whole army is going to be over by England/Nubia at the end of this war, so does that mean that we should sign a Declaration of Friendship with them to focus on the other team, or use it to attack them? I don't know. I don't have any easy answers to this question.

Sign a Treaty with England/Nubia

I've already laid out most of the arguments in favor and against this above. A Declaration of Friendship with this team would let our army (and navy) focus on Russia/Germany instead. However, would we even be able to get them over to Russia/Germany in a timely fashion? Where would we attack Russia and Germany if we did want to get aggressive with them? We certainly would not be in a position to pull off a timing attack against Russia or Germany, not with our current Declaration of Friendship lasting until Turn 145 (roughly), long after the possibility for a cavalry attack will be gone and the immediate punch of Venetian Arsenal + frigate upgrades will have worn off.

I think this mostly will come down to how risky we want to play things. The high risk / high reward plan would have us planning the attack on England/Nubia. It's the best opportunity to leverage our strengths into more territory and the chance to cripple one of our major rivals. This plan would have us looking to take out England/Nubia as a major player in the game and then turning to deal with Russia/Germany. The problem is that a ton of things could obviously go wrong, and we could be handing the game to Russia/Germany on a silver platter. The safer play would be to sign a Declaration of Friendship with England/Nubia and then wait to see what happens. However, it's a really passive and boring way to play the game, and it's more of a "playing not to lose" than playing to win approach.

Again, I don't have any answers right now. I think we continue to wait and avoid signing deals for now and see what happens. Just trying to lay out some of these thoughts right now while I have the time.
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(April 2nd, 2018, 21:59)Sullla Wrote: We hit England/Nubia with 12 frigates and 6 caravels at sea, combined with the current Roman army + a dozen Chinese cavalry on land.
Wow, know you've been banking gold, but that's a lot of upgrades.  Really could have that much by T125 along with research all the way Square Rigging and Military Science?
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Asking that is like waving a red flag in front of a bull...only in this case the bull will sit down with some Excel calculations and then trample all over you.

But more to the point the theme so far in this game has been small advantage acquisition and this lead to your teams being on top and Kongo / Khmer almost eliminated. While I agree with the "playing not to lose instead of winning" idea it's also safer to let the other teams try to stop you and then capitalize on this. Yes, it will prolong the game and maybe it's not as exciting but less risky too.

And it's still more likely that England / Nubia and Germany / Russia would prefer to fight each other instead of you in which case...silver platter. They'll only be as strong as their economies can support it and there's not much competition there so far, plus you're already increasing yours and crippling theirs.
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Let's continue with a little more 'wait and see' approach while fully preparing for war. We are shortly going after Seoul followed by Nan Madol. I do believe that both actions will anger our opponents. While it is true that Rome's army is more or less committed in the east, China can use faith drafted horsemen -> cavalry to stop a German/ Russian invasion. I do hope that taking both city states will put us back in the driver seat.

With a second city in the east, China will also be able to quickly respond to any action there. I am actually anticipating tensions with Nubia and England followed by a war, which in turn Russia might want to use to go after England/Nubia via their own land connection.

I will do a reduced draft in the next few turns to save some faith for a quick drafting action where it might be necessary. Remember, with more cities near the front, I am not restricted to 1 horseman a turn. In the west, I could in fact, draft 3-4 units easily.
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