[SPOILERS] Rusten prepares to face the music

[Rusten]

Alright, but I strongly recommend adding it to the checklist. No need to beancount tile distances to all the various resources, but a simple check for available capital overlap is not hard to do. It's easily quantifiable and a yes/no thing. Either give everyone a resource to share+new resource or noone. It makes a big difference.

I had a feeling I was (randomly) screwed the moment I saw that seafood were the closest resources.

[Rusten]

Finishing off the previous discussion I will emphasize that I've had good fortune in other ways this game. My intention was not to complain about my position but to avoid such a thing in the future, because if there's someone out there sharing a seafood-based starting area who's got bad RNG/neighbours then I feel for him.

Anyway, moving this thread back into a positive mood I settled Feelharmonia this turn. 2 workers nearby to improve deer --> chop settler --> chop granary (in time for the growth to size 2).
Not a spectacular city, but having the nearby forests made me prioritize it over a different spot with more food seeing as mathematics is 1T away.

I'm not well versed in the electronica scene, but a friend of mine recommended me this track/artist about a year ago and I'm a fan.

Demographics are so-so right now, mainly due to heavy whipping. I'll gain 12k power over the next 2 turns from mathematics+archery and multiple barracks are not far off either. I don't think I will ever dip below the average military count once I pass it this game. I intend to have a continous military build-up and HBR is next on the tech list I think. Having a commerce capital as holy city to finance it all will be great when wealth multipliers become available.

Edit: Also worthy of note: TBS lightbulbed mathematics with a GS this turn (and I made contact with him 1 turn ago. Naufragar researched it 1-2 turns ago.

[Rusten]

Mechanics question -- calling all the knowledgeable lurkers out there.

Civ A has religion but no sailing.
Civ B has sailing.
Civ A and B have trade network thanks to Civ B (sailing).

Can religion spread from Civ A to Civ B?

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I'm in this situation right now as both naufragar and superdeath are connected to my trade network (they have sailing and I don't yet).

[Rusten]

The game is reaching a stage where things are becoming more defined. Early on I was arguing that an attack on naufragar seemed natural, but with more knowledge of the map and neighbours I'm more inclined to take land from Aretas and then possibly a backwards superdeath. Naufragar seems competent enough and I have no reason to think he's bordering ill will towards me – he could be a peaceful border ally in the near future. And on a map with so many neighbours having such a «friend» would be very beneficial.

a) After his work boat went through my territory he did not offer a cease fire but a 10-turn peace treaty. Nothing solid there, but it's still a sign of good intentions. Cease fire is the default offer.

b) We have a well understood border area where neither one is being pressed by culture and the unclaimed area is extremely barren. You can see most of it in the screenshot on the previous page – nothing but a 3F sheep. I would not be markedly upset if he'd settle it.

So I'm considering making it more official and thus my question:
Fish for fish type deals are offered to signal peaceful intentions, but for how long are they considered to last? 50 turns? 100 turns? 150 turns?
I've not played any pitbosses on RB before so if anyone can fill me in on what's generally considered fair use here that would be helpful. Of course they're not binding in any case, but attacking 5 turns after offering one would obviously be a dick move. At what point (roughly) is it not a dick move?

I can see at least 40-50 peaceful turns with naufragar from this point on, but beyond that things can change quickly in this game. He's still my neighbour by land and I'm running a strategy based on military and superior land count.

[Mardoc]

I think fish for fish is allowed precisely because there's not any particular consensus on the exact meaning. For a counterexample, associating fish + 40 gold for fish + 40 gold with a 40 turn NAP proposal would be plausible, which is exactly why it's forbidden this game to include the 40 gold.

Personally I would treat a fish-for-fish deal as an indication to look for other signs of friendship, not as a promise. Like, it would lead me to consider workers roading to my border as an opportunity for trade, not solely as a precursor to invasion. But I'm sure other people would have other interpretations.

[Rusten]

OK, thanks! That's my interpretation as well.

[Rusten]

Got the deer for deer trade in return from naufragar this turn, so that's good news. We can both demilitarize the border a bit in the near future, and he might give me trade routes later. Was a little worried he'd simply accept and reveal it to all, because I have noticed an active pig for pig trade between TBS and superdeath for instance, but no such problems here. If my other neighbours saw such a deal when my military starts spiking (soon) it would make my target more obvious.

I've stopped thinking of him as a new player. He said it's his first time playing multiplayer in the signup thread but he must have lurked a lot on top of a decent general skill level. He's got a lot of cities, decent demos, knowledge of diplomacy. IDK how his military tactics hold up, but given the time being invested in the game I expect no big blunders there either.
As mentioned he did have an insane 2nd city spot and the IMP trait, but that alone doesn't explain his (from my point of view) good position in the game. I'm still confused by the super early settler, but with such a city spot available maybe it makes sense.

[Rusten]

The joys of overlap, part 2: Not just the starting turns.

Juggling tiles to fit production can be very useful. This is just one example, but I've been juggling food on/off for all my cities this game trying to be efficient with when and where I get my workers/settlers. It's a basic concept, but often underused. This is one such example:

Capital just grew to size 9. Whipping at such sizes is much less profitable so I'm taking the opportunity to build a settler while stagnating. I'll soon have the remainder of the river cottaged too so I need the pop available. These tiles gain full use of the IMP trait, but even disregarding imperialistic this is what you always want to do if possible. A corn tile gives +6 or +4 food depending on how you want to look at it. If you put that into a settler you get 4 hammers in return. If you give the 4 food to a growing nearby city it can be converted more favourably. A size 5 city with a granary can turn the 4 food into 8 hammers through the whip. A size 2 city can turn it into 10 hammers. Double the effectiveness or more compared to simply putting it into a settler/worker. The plan is to stagnate Kaputt on cottages at size 11 (soon furs for another +1 happy). It can donate food to its neighbours until calendar when it will gain a few more sizes.


Meanwhile the corn is of great use to Leitmotif. Growing quickly at +9 and preparing to run specialists when the madrassa is complete.




This is based on a very general rule of thumb:  If you're going to grow, then grow as soon as possible.

With infinite worker turns the best way to improve a newly settled green jungle city is to farm every tile until happy cap and then turn all the tiles into cottages. Not applicable to a real game, but still a principle to follow. Swapping tiles around helps for this, and in the case of a size 10+ capital it's nice to have the possibility to go +11 food per turn and then back to +0 once you've reached the size you want. To keep running the corn tile after reaching the ideal city size is much less effective than giving it to a different city.

[Rusten]

Xenu got the Pyramids. That's pretty good news as I was not going for them and someone like mackoti very well might have. He's founded Judaism too so probably had OR to help construct it (no mathematics though, AFAIK). I guess the high roll would've been someone nearby building it as I'm in a position to capture it.
Still no Great Wall. C'mon BGN, I thought you were roleplaying Trump! Where is it? Empty promises?  

Settled StatusExcessuD this turn. Very low on commerce, but high on food. Many forests. Can probably get it up to speed quickly for military purposes.

With the previous track being electronica it makes sense to get a trance guilty pleasure out of the way next. A staple in my workout mixes.

[Rusten]

I've been given space and as a result costs are up. Think I need to go alphabet-sailing before HBR to build research and get better trade routes started.
10 turns ago I did -15 at 100% science. Now it's -35. I will have 2 new gem tiles coming within the next 4 turns which helps, but still, it's important to keep harmonious development and at the moment costs are skyrocketing. Need to nip it in the bud.