Singaboy and Sullla's team thread

[Singaboy]

Turn 137:

A new civic and with it, new policy choices. I also have an offer from Archduke, what could that be? Colonialism is done and China switches back to Nationalism, 7 long turns for that. All three builders have been produced



Let's see what Germany has to offer and it turns out to be a clear threat. He is going to take Xiangqi in 25 turns when the Alliance runs out. Well, we don't mind Germany and Russia sitting back and waiting for 25 turns before finally kicking into any action. With Russia clearly trailing Germany, I am not sure how much support they can offer to lift Germany to the same level that Rome and China can be at. We shall see.

Policies are swapped and I remove Press Gangs and Public Works and replace them with Professional Army and Triangular Trade. I now have some time to go to upgrade my units before removing Professional Army and potentially replacing it with Wars of Religion for some bonus for the war.

In the east, the missionary doesn't achieve anything and it turns out, I will need an Apostle to remove the second religion to have any chance to establish Marco Polo. That is indeed very disappointing. I am thinking now whether I should establish a commercial zone and hurry that with a stone harvest. What do you think, Sulla.

With regards to military, the city is surely getting crowded. There will be 10 cavalry and 7 field cannons.

Woden is sniffing about with his knights. I am trying to hide some units but can only do so much, of course. The builder will first repair the iron before moving to harvest stone. Hopefully, Woden will still field knights when the war starts. Even with his GG, they will be eaten by our field cannons and cavalry.

On the tiny Island, my knight has carried out the first attack and will earn a promotion with the next attack, just nice.

In Shanghai, I decide to get production back to the shrine and temple, with the aid of a forest chop. This finishes the shrine and almost completes the temple. If I have too much faith at hand, I could rush another wat there, though it would add only 3 science and 2 faith. With these two buildings, faith would be again much higher if I would swap to Simultaneum, if I want to faith purchase a Great Person, for example.

The rest of the empire is continuing with their builds, though Pagan swaps back to the campus. Eventually, the builder from Hangzhou will reach that place and then help to chop it. The builders from Shangdu and Hangzhou are moving to improve a. citrus and b. chop the rain forest. Shangdu is finishing the crossbow now before it goes obsolete. Hangzhou is finishing a market for some added gpt and GM points. I might start a science project there next for added science and points for a Great Scientist. Lastly, a new trade route is established between Xiangqi and Lisbon. My income gets close to 150 gpt even though I have a host of units.

So what about faith purchasing Great People, something we talked about at the beginning of the game. The current Great Merchant is being chased by Rome and I won't interfere there. However, as Nubia is chasing a Great Scientist that would help their team netting potentially crucial Eureka's, it might be a good idea to run some science projects and snatch it from Nubia? Hangzhou and Quanzhou could both run such projects once their current production is done. What do you think Sulla? It would of course, also increase my meager science output.
What is the formula for science project output? Could two well timed science projects get China to grab that Great Scientist? The other idea would be to run commercial projects and try to get the next Great Merchant once Rome has claimed the current GM. There is still Adam Smith who adds an economic policy slot. This in my mind, is incredibly strong. Imagine we both could claim GM one after another with well timed projects (China could purchase the rest with faith)

[Sullla]

TheArchduke's reaction is understandable if disappointing for us. I hope that they're not going to sit and wait 25 turns just to attack us when the alliance wears off. Are they really going to wait 160 turns without ever fighting a single opponent (?) I guess we'll find out. At least we can see all of their units so long as the alliance lasts. On the Great Person question, I really don't think any of the Great People are worth spending 1000+ faith to patronage. I would use that faith for more unit purchases; if we don't have a unit to purchase right now, then we might as well keep saving. We could always use some more crossbows purchased for the cities along the western Chinese sea coast, to be ready for a German attack in 25 turns. Crossbows are relatively affordable to purchase at 300 faith whereas field cannons will be prohibitively expensive at almost 600 faith apiece. I think it's virtually impossible to have too many units ready to defend us.

This is the abbreviated turn report from yesterday:



The idiot barbarian caravel did not attack any of my quadriremes between turns. It looks like it tried to move away and was caught and stuck in my zone of control. The AI in this game... yeesh.



As a result, I shot the barbarian unit three times with my quadriremes for XP and then finished it off with my caravel, earning a promotion in the process. Hello double-promoted ironclad if I manage to build Terracotta Army (we think anyway). 72 melee strength and 75 strength defending against ranged attacks? Yes please.



Germany had not attacked Bandar Brunei as of my turn. Still setting things up I guess. The longer TheArchduke waits to invade, the better it is for us.



This jungle chop at Napoli grew the city to size 8 and overflowed about 100 production into the next build; I chose to have the city 1-turn a Bath district with the overflow, then it will be back to complete a library. Napoli is turning into a pretty nice city, albeit one that's a little low on hills for production. Connecting the cocoa for Singaboy is next.



Here's the one negative thing for this turn. I can't finish Civil Engineering policy and obsolete Limes until this builder chops the forest at Roma for Terracotta Army. Let's count the moves: into the city next turn (Turn 138), then onto the forest Turn 139, and finally the chop on Turn 140. Normally that would mean that I queue up the policy change on Turn 140 and chop before swapping out Limes policy. However, this doesn't work here because Civil Engineering literally obsoletes Limes - the second that I discover the civic, I lose the ability to use Limes. Therefore I can't change into Professional Army until Turn 141, and then I need a couple turns to upgrade units and move them into position to attack. Therefore Turn 144 looks mostly like for our attack on Nan Madol now, which is unfortunately getting a little close to the Turn 146 start of our larger war. I wish that I could do this sooner, but I won't be able to complete the wonder without using Limes overflow for 230ish production from the forest chop. And I think the wonder if worth building for all those promotions. That's life though.



We don't need a missionary for Lucca.



Overview for the north. Tech research is Ballistics with overflow going into Steam Power as we discussed last turn. Civics research starts up on Natural History in preparation for the boost to arrive from Savoia in half a dozent turns. Civil Engineering is one turn away from completion.



Overview for the south. More Bath districts finishing to keep growth flowing along, stone harvest with Limes overflow incoming at Parma next turn.



Here's the medieval walls built by EmperorK along his border with Woden. Is this a subtle hint that Russia/Germany are thinking about attacking England/Nubia? That would be fantastic news for us if true, as it would force Chevalier to use at least some of his navy to defend his cities in the far ocean over here. Right now, TheArchduke has all of his ships over by Singaboy... but if you were TheArchduke, with an alliance of shared vision with England/Nubia, wouldn't you move your ships off in the opposite direction until the last minute if you were thinking about attacking? Maybe. The best possible situation for us would be Russia/Germany attacking England/Nubia at the same time that we do. The worst possible situation would be Russia/Germany sitting on their hands doing nothing for 15 more turns, and then combining together with England/Nubia to attack us. Anything that avoids us having to fight both other teams at the same time.

TheArchduke reached TheEnlightenment civic this turn and hopped up to 135 beaker/turn, an addition of +20 beakers as expected. However, he should be pretty maxed out here while Rome still has four universities and several libraries in production. Every Germany city with a Campus district has the library + university combo right now. We have room to grow on science while he does not, at least not without more cities. Speaking of which, TheArchduke also built another settler this turn. No idea where he plans to send it though - maybe he wants two cities on that island to the west of China (?)



Midway is a new city from Chevalier this turn. It will be toast if we can seize control of the eastern ocean; I'm concerned that he created this city solely to harvest the stone resources into ships though. Chevalier's power has been going up very quickly in recent turns, and I suspect that he's been mass harvesting forests/resources into ships. That's incredibly dangerous for someone with the Venetian Arsenal. We need to get battleships and sweet the eastern ocean clean of his cities before he can churn out too many ships on this body of water. If there's any silver lining here, it's that Russia and Germany surely have to be getting worried about England as well and will be more likely to do something about Chevalier before he can stack up too many ships.

[Sullla]

Turn came in very late from EmperorK tonight. I played but won't have time to type up the turn report until tomorrow morning. Nothing too important happened on this turn, nothing that we would need to pause to discuss as a group.

[Sullla]

OK, here we go for Turn 138:



The seas of the eastern ocean are clear of barbarians (for the moment, anyway) and my caravel earned a promotion in the process last turn. I took Embolon (+7 combat strength against naval units), which is basically like Battlecry for naval units except even better because it doesn't apply only on the attack. The bonus simply applies against all other naval units, period. Hopefully I'll combine this together with a second promotion from Terracotta Army and be able to take Reinforced Hull (+10 defense against ranged attack), which will effectively give me a 67 strength ironclad that defends at 77 strength against enemy frigates. Their 55 strength attacks (well, 60 strength attack since Chevalier will always have Great Admirals with him) look a lot less scary under those conditions.



No attack yet from Germany against Bandar Brunei. At this point, I'm wondering if he's trying to guard the city state against me, heh. I'm fine with the city state remaining around, as we have just as many envoys there as Russia/Germany do. Or this could still be very slow developing preparations for an attack, who knows.



Do you like pictures of forest chops and resource harvests? You're getting to get a couple this turn from me. The chopping has begun this turn at Parma, where I harvested the stone resource for 146 * 2 = 292 production after applying the Limes bonus, and overflowed 276 of that into a Harbor district, which Parma will complete next turn. The Harbor district is important because it will open up another yummy trade route worth almost 20 gold/turn, and of course the Harbor district itself is worth 3 gold/turn and 1 culture/turn via Meritocracy. There's another stone and copper resource still to harvest here, plus tons and tons of forests once the borders start expanding. I'd like to get into Press Gangs policy again and chop out a few more frigates before they get obsoleted at Steel tech when battleships unlock. I still think it will be basically impossible to have too many frigates/battleships. And the copper resource will be worth that same 292 gold to fuel upgrades of those frigates into battleships.



Here comes Limes chopping abuse #2 of the turn, with Ferrara sacrificing this forest for 234 production. This city didn't have as long to prepare for city walls overflow, however, and therefore picked up "only" about 200 production overflow. I put it into Ferrara's Harbor district as well, and for the same reasons: another trade route plus the gold and culture value of the Harbor itself. Trade routes are the key to managing the lategame economy, and the only way to avoid going bankrupt with such a massive military. The borders here are about to expand to one of the other forest tiles, and I'll chop that as well to complete the Harbor, then use the remaining builder charges to improve the truffles, iron, and whales resources.



It was a fairly quiet turn so here's the overview picture already. Ostia finished its university this turn to take science up to 151 beakers/turn, and I have it putting production into an unfinished Industrial district for the moment. The city will swap over to building more traders once they become available. Milano will also be on trader duty once the current university gets chopped to completion shortly. Lucca has a deer harvest + forest chop incoming over the next two turns which will knock out a Commercial district there for yet another trader. Venezia, Firenze, and offscreen Ravenna will all complete caravels for ironclad upgrades before I obsolete them with the completion of Steam Power tech. And Roma starts on the Terracotta Army wonder next turn after expertly prepping its medieval walls to 220/225 production this turn.



Lots of stuff finishing down in the south: a Bath district at Palermo (more ships to follow), the Harbor district at Parma, and then a library at Napoli using the overflow from last turn from the jungle chop. I'll also have a cocoa resource to trade to Singaboy available there next turn. Napoli is turning into a legitimately great city down there. On the research front, Ballistics finished this turn and I put the overflow into Steam Power, now down to just three turns remaining. I've estimated out my research and it looks like I'll have Steel tech on Turn 148, two turns after our war with Chevalier begins. That means I will have to stay on the defensive for the first few turns, waiting until I can upgrade my frigates into battleships, and then move forward on the attack in full when I have roughly 20 battleshields on the seas. Not sure if I'll have enough gold for all of those upgrades along with the desired crossbow into field gun upgrades, but we'll see how close I can get. Even with the Venetian Arsenal and his Great Admirals, I think it will be very tough for Chevalier to stop the ironclads and battleships I plan to have available, especially if they all have a free promotion via Terracotta Army.

Civics research is more straightforward: Civil Engineering is one turn from completion and waiting for me to swap after the Limes forest chop at Roma. Natural History will get boosted by the archaeological museum under construction in Saovia; I'll probably hold it a turn away from completion as well until I need a policy swap.



Woden added the city of Kurgus on his turn. It's an odd choice, a city with no resources and no fresh water. I presume that he picked this spot solely for chopping purposes, but he didn't grab any resources with this city and most of those tiles are jungles, not forests. If you're going for a pure chopping plant, you want forest tiles and stone/deer resources for harvesting. Chevalier did this the right way on his western coast with Midway and Lepanto, coastal cities that have lots of forests and stone resources. This is how he's beeng getting ships out so quickly, via chops and resource harvests along with Venetian Arsenal doubling. If we were at equal tech, I would almost certainly lose to Chevalier. However, with any luck Rome will be able to fight at a tech advantage, and that's what I'm putting my hopes on. Rome is currently up 6 techs on England, close to a full era of technology. It's questionable as to whether Chevalier can reach Steam Power for ironclads by the time we clash, but it should be completely impossible for him to reach Steel for battleships. I can't even get there until after our war starts and I have double his beaker output! I expect he'll be fielding caravels, frigates, and some of his unique unit Sea Dogs, which will be annoying to fight. At least the "capture enemy unit" ability has very low odds to work against more advanced units, which is exactly what I should have.

That should be all for now. Good luck Singaboy.

[Modo]

Chevalier did this the right way on his western coast with Midway and Lepanto, coastal cities that have lots of forests and stone resources. This is how he's beeng getting ships out so quickly, via chops and resource harvests along with Venetian Arsenal doubling. If we were at equal tech, I would almost certainly lose to Chevalier. However, with any luck Rome will be able to fight at a tech advantage, and that's what I'm putting my hopes on.

Is it a matter of luck? I feel like they sacrificed long term development like this, chopping and harvesting are increasingly more powerful as the game goes so you should take care when depleting this resource (assuming the game doesn't go to the point where you can replant / chop / replant, etc).

[Singaboy]

Turn 139:

Now, I wish my new holdings would have such forests etc. They have been planted to make use of the Colosseum and for strategic reasons as well as former Congolese city of Acre.

Anyway, my lack of more commercial districts as well as harbors is showing in terms of gpt now. Of course, faith output has let me draft most of my army which is something to not forget. Just to update, my military score is currently the highest at 1750. I am wondering what will happen when people start to upgrade all their stuff.

I start the turn by looking at the tech tree as I got another Eureka from Rome. I am going to line up the technologies as follows:
T139: Industrialization for higher production output. I will hopefully help getting districts faster.
T140: Finish military science
T141: Ballistics
I will then head for rifling and steel right away. I do not need ironclads (I have a mere two caravels anyway) for the coming war. Hence, heading for steel is the right call.  It will enable battleships and get my closer to combustion and tanks, which could be very important in our wars. I am getting two more universities soon . Rifling will cost me 388 beakers. I might get that down to three turns with sufficient overflow from the other technologies. Worst case is T145.
Steel then will cost me 456 beakers and could be done in 4 turns. This means I could get steel a turn after Rome on T149.



Let's have a look at my army at this stage:
Clearly, I will have plenty of cavalry. The number of crossbows (which at the end of this turn is already 10, + another 2 archers and 1 slinger) seems pretty nice too, considering that I will still draft 2 additional crossbows. The issue here is my navy, which is pretty bare. More importantly, for the land wars, I need tanks and they come from knights, not cavalry. I currently have only 3 knights. Of course, there are three heavy chariots in the west. However, I need more knights. I might have to draft a few in the east after all. They cost the same as crossbows, 295 faith.

So, the shortage of knights needs to be addressed. Shangdu, which just finished a crossbow, starts a knight. Hangzhou, which will finally grow to pop 12, is starting a research project to lift science a little to reach the crucial technologies sooner.

Hangzhou will get the citrus connected which will lift housing to 14 and continue to grow at a normal pace. The rain forest chop next turn will hopefully speed up growth from 12 to 13. It is then for the swamp and rice harvests to lift the city to pop 15. Good thing, that I will be getting another amenity next turn. When Hangzhou reaches pop 15, I might run quite a few specialists there to boost income (I might want some banks after all)

Shanghai in the west will finish a shrine next turn lifting faith a little.

Acre is slowly developing with the iron repaired this turn, production is 14 hammers. Industrialization will improve that slightly currently, but more mines will get the city to be a lot more productive. I am still debating whether I should harvest the stones into a commercial district as gold is the top priority and the Holy Site does currently nothing for us in terms of having missionaries for Marco Polo.

Look at all the units crowding the area. I am trying to keep them away from Rome's troops. The beauty of 1upt. Then, there is a knight from Nubia checking out our city. I will rotate my units around to hide the real number of horsemen and crossbows. I so hope that Nubia will have some stray units around when war breaks out, but I doubt Nubia will be that foolish.

Finally, what is my lone knight doing? As hoped, it earns its promotion and will take the camp next turn for 50 gold. After that, I have to attempt to bring this knight closer to my territory before the war breaks out.

[Sullla]

That would be very nice if China were able to follow Rome and pick up Steel only one turn later. I'll mention again on that front that it may be worthwhile to faith-purchase another bombard or two before reaching Steel, since artillery units are much better than their earlier era counterparts. Artillery pieces plus observation balloons are the go-to method for taking down city defenses in the later portions of the gameplay.

Knight into tank is another awesome upgrade path that we'll want to make use of. It's a little further away down the road, although I do think that Combustion will be our next tech to pursue after Steel. Hopefully I can get an archaeologist produced in time to boost that one (such a strange tech boost for something that unlocks tanks, heh). I've got to take a picture of that unit overview screen myself, I didn't even know about that one. I think it may have been added in patches at some point.

Good to see that Hangzhou is about to hit size 12 and will be on pace to reach size 15 for the Urbanization boost. I still think that you will likely need to harvest either the cattle pasture or the banana plantation to reach size 15, but we'll see how the math shakes out. The Campus district project there feels like an odd choice to me; is there something else that might be more useful?

I would still go for the Holy Site district at Acre, as it's the best place we have available to unlock missionary purchases in the east. While it's true that Acre doesn't follow Marco Polo religion right now, if we declare an Inquisition and use an inquisitor on the city, that would be enough to remove the Khmer religion and convert the city to Marco Polo, and then we could use that city to convert everything else in the east. Obviously that would require spending faith on an apostle (to declare the inquisition) and an inquisitor, but it's a viable option and something worth thinking about. And if nothing else, more faith is always handy for China to have.

Apparently the turn went around past everyone else this morning and is back to me again, but I won't be able to play the turn until later tonight.

[Trasson]

(such a strange tech boost for something that unlocks tanks, heh).

What, you didn't know that Indiana Jones invented tanks? I thought you were a historian.

[Japper007]

I think it's a reference to tar pits actually (since you know... oil), but then shouldn't you be digging up dinasours and mammoths with a Paleontologist? If you dig up an archeological artifact it even has a stylized T-rex skull as a symbol... Maybe some relic (heh get it ) from development?

[Modo]

First Danish literature, now Indiana Jones. Anything but his field...luckily that's plenty to stab at him.