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Rowain positioned his scout in order to disrupt my settler path. I chose to go for the safer movements, fearing exactly what I saw this last turn, a trap with a warrior. The scout + warrior combo would kill my slinger and take my settler. It goes to show that Rowain behaviour of mess up my settler movement had something else behind it, otherwise I don't think he'd have bothered.
I ended up settling the 4th city on the horses. Not ideal, but far from a tragedy. It's a 3 food plant, I get to share some good tiles and, well, I settle the city now, rather than 10 turns in the future, which is the main reason. Now I can plop a city into the tobacco up north, that gets a lot of stone to harvest. But that's a late game city, due to the lack of hill tiles.
Overview. You can see my warrior wrapping around BB, to scout Japan + get ready for the siege. Those scattered barbs to the north will hopefully give me archery Eureka. The two swords will be the warrior currently in production in Yaroslavl (chopped, of course, because I can't wait all those turns, though the city production will get better once I change civics + the growth) + the warrior near Yaroslavl. I'll probably get an archer or 2 to help as well.
The warrior being built in the Capital will go south to fight the barbs (not sure where is the camp from that scout). I'll also get a spear from the Capital, I think, to try and get the Eureka.
Man, Bandar Brunei is such a great city. I really need to capture it.
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Questions? Comments? I'm starting to feel a bit alone here.
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Thar be genlurkers about, keep up the reporting!
I do have a question for you -- which one of your opponents do you feel is your greatest present threat and do you have an intermediate/long term plan for dealing with them?
April 30th, 2018, 13:39
(This post was last modified: April 30th, 2018, 13:40 by Japper007.)
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(April 30th, 2018, 13:09)Ichabod Wrote: Questions? Comments? I'm starting to feel a bit alone here.
Do you think Russia's economic abilities (border pops and lavras) are strong enough to make the civ top tier on their own? Or did you mostly pick them for the Cossacks (this seemed to be your main motivation for picking them at the start IIRC)?
I'm still very much enjoying reading along btw, I'm just a genlurk so I can't say anything too particular . I know from experience that keeping up these threads can start to feel like shouting into the void after a while, but if it helps know there are other places where people are usually discussing (and scrutinizing ) your every move.
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I'm curious what Krill and Rowain in particular are up to - neither has been great about updating their thread.
How do you feel about your start so far? Anything you'd do differently, or have you played things about as well as you could have?
May 2nd, 2018, 12:58
(This post was last modified: May 2nd, 2018, 12:58 by Ichabod.)
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Chopped into a warrior in the Capital, which is enough to 1 turn the Camp (UI lies, as I'll actually grow the city in 1 turn as well). That'll give me +3 GPP for the first GG, which is pretty nice. I'm actually considering building a stable in this Camp, as there's some Eurekas connected to Camp buildings and I'll be spamming horse units from here as the game goes on. Faster promotions is really nothing to write home about, but not useless.
You can see most that is going on around my empire. I'm scouting Krill's moves, especially considering he has a decent army (hopefully he wants to take another city, not BB). I sent the new warrior north, as I want an option to upgrade a 3rd sword, if needed. I'll spam some more warriors to deal with the eventual barb invasion from that triggered scout.
I'm finishing Myst for the policy swap, as I want out of Ilkum, probably go into +1 per city. I don't think I have time to build another settler right now. I'll think about it. The envoy can go into Yerevan for some extra faith, as I've completed the Archery Eureka quest. I don't need to put it in Carthage, as I'll complete thier other quest soon enough.
Since my new builder doesn't have a second pasture to improve anymore, I was thinking about what to do and realized I can already build a discounted Campus. And a 3 adjacency discounted Campus at that. So, that's the new plan! It'll go two south of the city (I won't be able to chop that jungle, unfortunately, but speed is of the essence here) and I think a chop into a nearly completed warrior will almost finish it. I'm really happy with this plan, it'll help my lagging science (which is my main problem right now) and I'll get the third envoy in Carthage (build a Campus is the quest).
With those 4 districts in place, I can place a second discounted Campus, which will go 2E here, for a +4 adjacency! That's really great, also giving me the Recorded History Inspiration. Apart from the impossible Inspirations, build a wonder and getting a declaration of war against me, I think I'll fill all the way until Monarchy pretty quickly and I'll be very early into a 6-slot government! My Capital will have no problem growing to size 10, it seems, which was a major difficulty for me in PBEM 3.
The tile I want to place the Campus on is still not in my land, but I'll use the GPRO to found the religion on Yaroslavl's Lavra, and that'll expand my borders, if I understand correctly how the ability works.
May 2nd, 2018, 13:32
(This post was last modified: May 29th, 2018, 15:25 by Ichabod.)
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Those are great questions!
(April 30th, 2018, 13:38)suboptimal Wrote: Thar be genlurkers about, keep up the reporting!
I do have a question for you -- which one of your opponents do you feel is your greatest present threat and do you have an intermediate/long term plan for dealing with them?
I think it's too early to tell. Score doesn't reveal much this early, because things can get very skewed due to City States and early abilities. And I think the map gives great opportunities for foreign intervention, so it won't be easy to be a runaway without others meddling with your affairs (at least that's my feel from my central position). Right now, Bacchus has 3 cities, everyone else has 2. Rowain has a Campus, EmpK a campus as well and Krill has 2 Holy Sites, I think, that's it for districts. That seems low production compared to what I have, but I received powerful boosts from my early pantheon and the cheapness of Lavras. I believe the increasing costs will make things more balanced pretty soon.
Right now, my main opponent seems to be Bacchus, as is to be expected, considering he's Rome. He has a good science rate, since he has the 2 great Bareer Reef tiles in his borders already (which are 3f2b tiles, great this early). He's very close to me, on the other side of Carthage. I don't think we will allow the other to target that CS, that works as a great buffer. In that sense, he has a good advantage, since he placed a Camp that is 2 tiles from the Carthagian City Center. On the other hand, that advantage can become a problem if I ever capture Carthage having DotF.
EmpK and Rowain seems to be battling for Hypathia.
Not exactly sure what Krill is doing. But it's Krill. He's very good.
(April 30th, 2018, 13:39)Japper007 Wrote: (April 30th, 2018, 13:09)Ichabod Wrote: Questions? Comments? I'm starting to feel a bit alone here.
Do you think Russia's economic abilities (border pops and lavras) are strong enough to make the civ top tier on their own? Or did you mostly pick them for the Cossacks (this seemed to be your main motivation for picking them at the start IIRC)?
I'm still very much enjoying reading along btw, I'm just a genlurk so I can't say anything too particular . I know from experience that keeping up these threads can start to feel like shouting into the void after a while, but if it helps know there are other places where people are usually discussing (and scrutinizing ) your every move.
I think those abilities help a lot. My early advantage in this game is not entirely due to that, though, since I had a lot of luck with great terrain and top notch CS luck. But those bonuses alone are way more than other Civs receive. Free border pops give a lot more settling options, enabling a lot more 4 yield tiles than you could get otherwise (meaning you don't have to waste builder charges on improvements). That's huge, since I can use most of my builder charges to chop units and districts, instead of building mediocre improvements.
Lavras are nuts. They give you almost assuredly the first religion (barring Japan with Divine Spark, China or someone that wastes too much resources on projects), they give you the difficult State Workforce Inspiration for fast PP and, if you know how to abuse it, they give you discounted districts. Next turn, I'll have 3 districts ready, having payed for only 1,6 (2 0,5 Lavras, one 0,6 Camp). My next districts will be 2 more Lavras and 2 more discunted Campus, so I'll have 7 districts for the cost of 3,8. That's bonkers! And it doesn't stop at that, those are only the ones I already planned. I'll probably get a 2nd discounted Camp at Astrakhan, to defend against Rowain, once it hits size 4.
Russia is the only vanilla Civ with a discounted early district and thst's massive. in the expansion, you can do the same with Korea and Zulu.
And then you also have the Tundra boost, which I'll eventually use in this game, and the TR boost, that is pretty poor. But, man, if they release another leader for Russia, this Civ will become bonkers good.
(April 30th, 2018, 16:09)Chevalier Mal Fet Wrote: I'm curious what Krill and Rowain in particular are up to - neither has been great about updating their thread.
How do you feel about your start so far? Anything you'd do differently, or have you played things about as well as you could have?
Rowain has 2 cities, the divine spark pantheon and a Campus, which means he's the front runner to get Hypathia, for whatever that's worth. Not much more to say about him. He tried to snipe my settler.
Krill has top power right now, at 120. That actually can indicate a CS attack, but perhaps it's just him using his God of the Forge pantheon to get good chops. He still doesn't have early empire, so no +50% for settlers, which may explain why he's at only 2 cities. He was at 2 GPRO GPP for some time, went down to 1, than later to 2 again. I don't think a war happened, the UI didn't show me and I've met everyone pretty early. So, I guess a barb pillaged his second holy site/a shrine? Not exactly sure.
I like my start. I got lucky, but made some good decisions, I feel. I think the early second city was justified, as the scout opener. I like my chosen pantheon. I like the idea of going for the first GG instead of Hypathia, as I think I would have ended up losinh Hypathia, as things looks right now. My 3rd and 4th cities are perhaps not ideal in their placement, but I think they follow a coherent strategy. I need a foothold on the middle of the map and taking BB is by far the biggest advantage I could get from my powerful early game (whose advantages will diminish if I don't compound in them), as well as my likely choice of DotF. I really, really like taking BB with fast Oligarchy + swords (and, if I have to face Krill in this dispute, likely with a faith rushed GG, though that's a bit far into the future still).
I think I used the % cards pretty well, having spent very few turns on non-boosted production. I like my chop heavy strategy, based on settling good yield unimproved tiles. Certainly my micro could have been more tight, but I'm going at these with a casual mindset.
Overall, I think I played the correct strategy so far, doing a good job to adapt to lucky and not so lucky circumnstances.
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What's Krill been up to, you ask? Well, it seems a bit more clear now.
Yeah, that's an attack... I fortified my warrior in place to see what he does. My warrior defends at 27 strength and the most units that can attack it are one archer and one warrior, so I'm safe. I actually wouldn't mind the Defensive Tactics Inspiration, if it comes to that. I want to be as annoying as possible and delay Krill's siege bonus, if he's indeed coming for that city.
I'm not that worried, because the timing kind of favours me. BB defense is not hopeless against a warrior + archers attack, as they have some units around and I think I can prevent a siege for a long time, by moving my own warrior around. Krill's science and culture are very poor. He has 6 techs only, from which I'm sure he has AH, Archery, Astrology, Mining. He has no iron for trade, so it's highly doubtful he has IW. Also, he's not generating any GG points, so he can't have horseman yet, even if he has 1 horse improved. He has 4 civics only, so he needs 2 more for PP (and oligarchy) and one more for support/flanking bonuses. So, it's likely that I'll face his army wounded by BB, with way better units (swords, oligarchy, support), and better mobility from my road to the city. If taking BB is indeed what Krill is planning, it may end up working out for me. But it's too early to tell.
The Campus plan keeps going strong.
I spent the Myst envoy to get a bit more faith until I take Yerevan, by suzeraining it. It's a nice little city for Russia. And seeing where the CS units are will definetely help when I become ready to attack.
This is a neat MM trick, I think. One more hammer and I'd have finished the warrior (and it's way better for me to work 1h over 1f, when the city is at housing penalty). But, I want to build a shrine next. This way, I can get a whole turn of +50% overflow next turn, which will mean more hammers invested in a non card boosted building. I'll probably do that again, instead of goinf for the shrine straight up. It's almost like chopping, in a way. I don't really need the shrine right now, I just want it for the Choral Music culture later and the ability to build a missionary to spread DotF after/if I take BB.
My southern warrior is hunting for a barb camp. The 50g would really help me to get a 3rd sword upgrade in an useful time frame. I'm not counting on it, but perhaps it happens.
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Well, I tried enlightening the masses with high level economic play, but to no avail. The brute only want blood, so blood they shall have.
Stupid me forgot the before screenshot. Well, Krill positioned in a way that 2 warriors and 2 archers could hit my warrior next turn, so it was time for a tactical retrreat. Krill is up to 250 mil power, so we'll definetely have some interesting times around BB. BB has 3 warriors and one archer that I can count, but they are not very well positioned. If I'm reading Krill moves right, I won't be able to deny him the tile he needs south of the river to get a siege (I'd need to declare in BB and that would actually enable the siege as well).
So, I'll play vulture here and wait for opportunities, while giving Krill the first move. The biggest challenge is that I can only attak Krill units inside BB's borders if I declare war on BB, since I'm not suzerain. Or is there a way to defend a city state that you are not suzerain of?
Anyway, that's only potential blood, not actual blood. So, let's see.
I finally had enough of this bastard scout. This is clearly an aggressive move (threatening to pillage my TR), since the scout is circling around my borders for the past few turns. Rowain delayed and moved my third city and has been hostile for a long time. So, in the words of Stewie Griffin from Family Guy: "that's what happens, man":
Yuck. It's annoying that the scout survived, but his only way out seems to be a deletion. I thought initially that I'd lose the Caravan, since it would move to the hill and the BB warrior would move away. But then I realized and rejoiced that BB moves after Rowain, so my caravan is safe under the BB warrior protection (as it moved there at eot).
Ok, a scout almost died, what's the big deal, right?
Well...
Two people can play the annoying scout game. My scout was 1SE of the mountain and I had vision on that builder when the turn began, while I think Rowain didn't have vision on my scout. Anyway, my scout is woods promoted, so I was able to capture the builder. A 3 charge builder at that. Yeah, yeah, Rowain will devote his whole game to hurt me after this, yadda, yadda, but I don't care, frankly. Usually these threats are pretty hollow and I don't mind butting some heads around, combat is fun in Civ 6. Besides, I'm in a central position with a high score, I was already expecting some dogpile action soon enough.
Rowain can't reach my scout in his turn, because the wood tile protects me. I don't really believe I can escort the builder back home (I know Rowain has a promoted warrior between Ulm and Astrakhan), but I can delete it if I get cornered. I'm unsure about what to do with the scout, I might very well go and try to pillage Rowain's campus in his Capital. His power is very low and I know the likely position of 2 warriors and a scout. He likely doesn't have that much more.
In the bright side for Rowain, he got the defensive tactics Inspiration.
Back to boring news, I placed my discounted Campus, costing 75 hammers. The normal cost would be 126, so I'm saving 51 hammers. That's the indirect power of Lavras. I don't think the Campus will complete in 1 turn with the chop, but it shouldn't take more than 3 turns or so... Scratch that, I just made the math and it seems I'll be able to 1 turn it. I get 70,5 hammers from the chop, minus 1/2 max to finish the warrior and the city itself makes at least 11 hammers, so 75 will be no problem.
Overview. I just realized that the warrior in the Capital could auto upgrade to a sword, since I'm finishing IW, I have one iron hooked up (that reminds me that I got the IW and Wheel Eureka from that) and a Camp in the city. I don't know how Civ 6 manages this case, hopefully not by making my hammers/unit vanish, but i'm not holding my breath. I wouldn't really mind an auto upgrade, since an extra sword can be helpful against Krill, even if takes a little longer to build.
In Novgorod I'm going based on the knowledge that a recent patch made it possible to build the previous unit type if a certain city doesn't have the strategic resources required to build the newer one. If this is wrong, next turn will be a nasty surprise.
Hopefully I get the next turn tonight, but that seems a bit optimistic.
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So, my creative mind imagined a patch that never happened. I can't keep on building warriors in cities, now that I have IW and Iron. So, my Campus chop and Lavra jop plans went south, as well as I just lost ~100 production (the prod isn't even counted to the swords I can't build). Not in a very Civ mood right now, lets say...
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