Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[ipecac]

. The worm turns, and the "country hicks" you despise will have their day.

That's a very US centric thing to say (on top of being a complete strawman argument). In Europe the divide is not exactly urban vs rural but rather between the locations where there are strong industries remaining and those where the major industrial jobs disappeared. In France the industrial wastelands in the north and east are leaning towards the far right (and in some places they're definitely more urban than rural) while Brittany (even outside of its main cities) is one of Macron's stronghold. And even Limousin, one of the least densely populated region in France, and one that is struggling economically, still holds to its left wing progressive values.

Yes, we were continuing a line of conversation about the US. And what certainly is a strawman is attributing to me some simplistic urban vs rural schema for politics outside the US.

[AdrienIer]

Yes, we were continuing a line of conversation about the US.

We were not. You were claiming that the ideology that proposes treating people like dirt because they weren't born in the same country as you (except if they're from Norway, according to that leader of yours) was winning everywhere.

Edit : and that post of yours was specifically about the rise of the far right in Europe

[ipecac]

Yes, we were continuing a line of conversation about the US.

We were not.

'we'= me and Japper, he mentioned 'country hicks' and I responded to that'

the ideology that proposes treating people like dirt because they weren't born in the same country as you

That's a fantastic example of a strawman.

[AdrienIer]

You're right, it has more to do with the person's skin color : having a US birth certificate yet being slightly too brown -> you're a second class human being who doesn't deserve anything. Or so I gather from your hand wriggling about those people being disenfranchised despite having a US birth certificate.

[Japper007]

Continue to deny the flow of history, which has been steadily getting more progressive for the last 60 years. What harm could that possibly do?

We will bury you.

My, such arrogance, and such malevolence too.

I look forward to you wailing.

Nothing malevolent about it, just pointing out the fact that the bulk of the conservative population is dying out. Your racist gran and your racist uncle are going to be gone in about 20 or so years. Trumps voter base is almost as old as he is. The reason you guys are so afraid of us university/college folks is because we'll be the ones left, and Left we almost all are.

[ipecac]

You're right, it has more to do with the person's skin color : having a US birth certificate yet being slightly too brown -> you're a second class human being who doesn't deserve anything. Or so I gather from your hand wriggling about those people being disenfranchised despite having a US birth certificate.

The legitimacy of the birth certificate is precisely what is in question. Not being a US birth certificate doesn't not equal to 'doesn't deserve anything', so that's a massive strawman.

[ipecac]

Nothing malevolent about it, just pointing out the fact that the bulk of the conservative population is dying out. Your racist gran and your racist uncle are going to be gone in about 20 or so years. Trumps voter base is almost as old as he is. The reason you guys are so afraid of us university/college folks is because we'll be the ones left, and Left we almost all are.

In your dreams, maybe.

On Deck, “Generation Z,” the most conservative generation in 70 years. Born between 1995 -2010, they’re fiscally conservative, staunchly supportive of personal freedoms, and strong on national security including counter-terrorism and cyber-security, with a hint of isolationism. They don’t fit the mold for either political party in their current form, which is probably why data suggests they support the unconventional Donald Trump over the political status quo offered by either party.

This is perhaps the mechanism behind their strong support for Donald Trump. In polling data collected by the Hispanic Heritage Foundation including 50,000 high-school students aged 14-18 just prior to the election, first time voters presented a 46% – 31% divide in favor of the Republican candidate with primary concerns being education, gun rights, and health care. When expanded to reflect their generation as a whole Trump still maintained a 14-point advantage over Clinton at 34% — 20%.

Despite the heated language during the campaign surrounding immigration in the wake of the San Bernardino, Paris, and Nice attacks, a subsequent Presidential Pulse Study likewise conducted by the Hispanic Heritage Foundation found that individuals of Middle Eastern background supported Trump over Clinton by a 7 point margin, 29%-22%, with 32% expressing that they would choose not to vote in the election. While the sample size is small for this demographic (1094 participants of 83,298) it is reflective of Gen Z seeking information beyond traditional forms of media.

The trend for libertarianism is not limited to the United States. A study focused on Gen Z in Britain discovered significantly more conservative views than millennials on issues such as marijuana legalization, trans-gender rights, and same-sex marriage.

Guess what, they'll get to vote in 2020.

[Japper007]

As someone who has actually taught generation Z, in your dreams they fall conservative. I managed a project teaching kids about Third World problems, which espoused a decidedly left-leaning view. So much so that I cringed a few times from the sheer left-wingedness and preachyness. They gobbled it up and where even more extreme than the material most of the time. They also support gay rights, gender neutrality, environmental policies and other typical proggresive issues. They may lean slightly to the right on spending as your article points out, but that does not make them Conservatives or Nationalists.

Also let's break down that quote you think supports your argument, just for the hell of it:

"they’re fiscally conservative, staunchly supportive of personal freedoms, and strong on national security including counter-terrorism and cyber-security, with a hint of isolationism"

Fiscally conservative:

Nothing to do with opposing progressiveness or a support for your "Nationalism" at all, just a Right wing view of spending, which does not have to go along at all with conservative viewpoints, as is shown by the Right wing that actually does have a large amount of support both here and overseas in the states (and one I don't have any issues with, just disagreements): Liberal Democrats.

"staunchly supportive of personal freedoms, and strong on national security including counter-terrorism and cyber-security"

As am I, not Conservative only viewpoints then right? If anything supporting individual freedoms is a progressive thing, very little support for gay marriage or legalization of drugs on the conservative side, bar a few libertarians, who are not conservative anyway but have to let themselves get lumped in with the loonies due to America's retarded FPTP system.

"a hint of isolationism"

Note "a hint" just the article desperately scrounging for support on it's points.

"found that individuals of Middle Eastern background supported Trump over Clinton by a 7 point margin"

So there are a slightly higher percentage of racists in the Middle Eastern group. Who'd have thunk right? It's not like they already support Authoritarianism in their homelands (like Erdogan and various other dictators), largely think women should have secondary status, and put their children under strong religious indoctrination for one of the worlds most authoritarian leaning religions, right? Nah that could never be, it must be because their generation is rightleaning, totally you guys...

Also:

"78% of Generation Z identifies as liberal to moderate on social issues and 83% identifies as moderate to conservative on fiscal issues."

https://www.riponsociety.org/article/und...eration-z/

No really they are totally Nationalists you guys. Not just a bit right of center on economics, and actively progressive on everything else.

Oh and wow what a flaming trashpile of a site the Daily Caller is, their front page is just filled with misleading and clickbait articles. If that is where Conservatives get their news, then well I'm not surprised they don't know shit about the world.

[Nicolae Carpathia]

Uhhhhhhhhhh according to my 4chan friends where we post the dankest memes where pepe in a nazi uniform gasses anita sarkeezian, all the kids are just as racist as I am.

[T-hawk]

"found that individuals of Middle Eastern background supported Trump over Clinton by a 7 point margin"

So there are a slightly higher percentage of racists in the Middle Eastern group.

You just assumed that Trump supporters are automatically racists.

That kind of attitude is why nobody can have a serious discussion about any of this.

That is why the Trump supporters are so entirely willing to just go "fuck you" in the voting booth.