Politics Discussion Thread (Heated Arguing Warning)

[mackoti]

So thats having kids in our days, body slaves 

No, but it is enslavement to force a woman to carry out a pregnancy, since you are taking away her right to control her own body. Bodily integrity is a basic human right.

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

[Zed-F]

The Actually, Mackoti, since I don’t live in the US I don’t really care what his position on fertility issues is. What I care about is the rapid degeneration of Democratic norms that has happened in the US over the last several years (decades really), but especially recently. The Kavanuagh nomination is not helping anything here. This is why I said, and maintain, that it would have been far preferable for the Republicans to withdraw the nomination immediately once the allegations came out and nominate someone equally conservative but less damaged, who would very likely come to similar decisions in court cases but without all the drama and damage to the Supreme Court’s credibility.

[mackoti]

Actually, Mackoti, since I don’t live in the US I don’t really care what his position on fertility issues is. What I care about is the rapid degeneration of Democratic norms that has happened in the US over the last several years but especially recently. The Kavanuagh nomination is not helping anything here. This is why I said, and maintain, that it would have been far preferable for the Republicans to withdraw the nomination immediately once the allegations came out and nominate someone equally conservative but less damaged, who would very likely come to similar decisions in court cases but without all the drama and damage to the Supreme Court’s credibility.

And you think the left will had a different  attitude?  Every thing is political and the left played very ugly and if the REP cave out they will do same farce again ,all in hopping they will win the election and blocking the nominalization till 2020.  And who will have the courage to be feed to wolfes  if they gave up on Brett even there is no  probes that he is guilty what Ford acussed him.

[Japper007]

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

It's not a "someone", so no. Freedom applies to humans, not potential humans

[Cornflakes]

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

It's not a "someone", so no. Freedom applies to humans, not potential humans

But why is it not a human? It has human DNA, and distinctly unique DNA from that of the mother or father. What is it that makes it only a "potential" human and not an actual human?

[Zed-F]

Really, Mack. If you look at the historical ratio of norm-breaking moments over the last 50 years you’ll see that the preponderance of it is at the hands of the Republicans. After the 1960s the Democrats had very little reason to challenge Democratic norms, but Republicans felt they weren’t getting enough wins on the merits of their own arguments, so they started to game the system and lie to their voters and turn more things into partisan battles at an increasing rate in order to get more of them. Democrats have thereby been forced to follow suit, but don’t think for a moment that there is an even split on culpability here. We got a self-absorbed white collar criminal with too many character flaws to count as the US President because the Republican Party has been stoking voter fear and grievance and distrust for decades, while pandering to their donor class, rather than coming up with new ideas or trying to make government work for everyone. The rise of social media and Russian voter influencing operations just facilitates this pre-existing trend.

As far as who else would the Republicans turn to for a Supreme Court nominee, they had 3-4 other options lined up, any one of which would have jumped at the opportunity. Democrats didn’t seriously try to get in Gorsuch’s way; if the Republicans performed due diligence on their vetting process I doubt that they would seriously be able to stand in the way of a less easily attacked candidate than Kavanuagh..

[suboptimal]

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

It's not a "someone", so no. Freedom applies to humans, not potential humans

But why is it not a human? It has human DNA, and distinctly unique DNA from that of the mother or father. What is it that makes it only a "potential" human and not an actual human?

It is, or is not, a "potential human" or "actual human" based solely upon the moral/religious/philosophical viewpoint of the person making the assertion.  Nothing more, nothing less.

[ShadowHM]

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

It's not a "someone", so no. Freedom applies to humans, not potential humans

But why is it not a human? It has human DNA, and distinctly unique DNA from that of the mother or father. What is it that makes it only a "potential" human and not an actual human?

Try: it hasn't been born yet?    If it can't live outside my body, then I get to decide.   Once born, I can give it up for adoption or otherwise relinquish control.  But while my body is required to allow it to grow / thrive / live, then I have the absolute right to decide.

There does have to be a line carved in the sand and mine gets carved around my body.   I am the one who gets to decide, not you or anyone else.   I may have an ethical duty to consult with my partner on this, but he has no veto right.

I am grateful that my Supreme Court decided in 1988 that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional  because it violated my right under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to security of my person. Since this ruling, successive Federal governments of both major political parties have declined to revise the Criminal Code to regulate abortion in Canada.

(Sorry to jump into this one so late.  I've been absent for a while.)

[mackoti]

But what you do with the other body?That one doesnt diserve integrity? So in the name of 'freedom' you are ready to kill someone which cant defend  and has no guilt to be there.

It's not a "someone", so no. Freedom applies to humans, not potential humans

But why is it not a human? It has human DNA, and distinctly unique DNA from that of the mother or father. What is it that makes it only a "potential" human and not an actual human?

Try: it hasn't been born yet?    If it can't live outside my body, then I get to decide.   Once born, I can give it up for adoption or otherwise relinquish control.  But while my body is required to allow it to grow / thrive / live, then I have the absolute right to decide.

There does have to be a line carved in the sand and mine gets carved around my body.   I am the one who gets to decide, not you or anyone else.   I may have an ethical duty to consult with my partner on this, but he has no veto right.

I am grateful that my Supreme Court decided in 1988 that the abortion provision in the Criminal Code was unconstitutional  because it violated my right under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to security of my person. Since this ruling, successive Federal governments of both major political parties have declined to revise the Criminal Code to regulate abortion in Canada.

(Sorry to jump into this one so late.  I've been absent for a while.)

So you decide  is a human beeing today and if change your mind tomorow is not any  more, that sounds very consistent to me  . Its the way of the left, make everithing fluid, well as well were comunists.

[mackoti]

Really, Mack. If you look at the historical ratio of norm-breaking moments over the last 50 years you’ll see that the preponderance of it is at the hands of the Republicans. After the 1960s the Democrats had very little reason to challenge Democratic norms, but Republicans felt they weren’t getting enough wins on the merits of their own arguments, so they started to game the system and lie to their voters and turn more things into partisan battles at an increasing rate in order to get more of them. Democrats have thereby been forced to follow suit, but don’t think for a moment that there is an even split on culpability here. We got a self-absorbed white collar criminal with too many character flaws to count as the US President because the Republican Party has been stoking voter fear and grievance and distrust for decades, while pandering to their donor class, rather than coming up with new ideas or trying to make government work for everyone. The rise of social media and Russian voter influencing operations just facilitates this pre-existing trend.

As far as who else would the Republicans turn to for a Supreme Court nominee, they had 3-4 other options lined up, any one of which would have jumped at the opportunity. Democrats didn’t seriously try to get in Gorsuch’s way; if the Republicans performed due diligence on their vetting process I doubt that they would seriously be able to stand in the way of a less easily attacked candidate than Kavanuagh..

Rise of social media?? Just make a statisc how many on twiter , facebook are pro Trump and how many are against? Russian voter influence?, any proves until now or just MSm,NBC,NYT and other left offices bubling....And on media i think is somewere 70 against and 30 for Trump.What you dont like is that other started to talk about the vicious way that democrats are using. Gave me some examples of norm-breaking stuff which republicans are guilty, but please dont take me with the crazy stuff i read that the parties chanched roles.

About Gorshuch ,they tried to play fair play and dont destroy man family but that had no rezults so used what they know to do the best, they are communist after all.