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Profane Wrote:In the first war with India, around 15 turns into the war Greece built the Great Wall, and was working on some Odeons and Libraries instead of spearmen to counter India's massive Horse Archer buildup.
On a side note - Jowy, what is your opinion about that move? I think the situation now might've been a lot different if Greece weren't forced to cede those 2 cities to India, but i'd like to hear your take, since you know better about the situation of your empire than us lurkers. IIRC back then India was stalling with their response in our peace negotiations.. At first we believed they might answer, but after about a week it was clear that they wouldn't. The Great Wall was just a ridicilous and stupid move.. I don't really remember if I had any other reason than "Oh it's just 4 turns, might as well build it!". Now Odeons I thought were a little bit more reasonable, they'd help me with my low happy cap, allowing my cities to finally grow larger and also allow more whips when necessary. I was nearly broke at that point and that was probably the biggest reason why I didn't build as many units as some anticipated. I also thought I could defend with the troops I had.. And the truth is, I probably could have if I had chopped some woods, roaded some more and acknowledged that they could attack Sparta so quickly.
Losing Argos and Sparta was my death in this game. If we had secured peace, or I had played defense better at that point, then combining my rebuild efforts to the east and keeping Argos and Sparta, I would have been in a very good position considering the circumstances.
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Whosit not doing mass whippings is particularly interesting in light of the fact that he just recently got a demonstration of how effective that is. After all, that's what turned the Inca war from a walkover into the aggressors getting smashed. Even now, if he were to start whipping crossbows out of all his cities, he could probably save most of the Empire. Bestine's probably gone, but the rest could be held.
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From the look of Broker/Plako's latest update, looks as if Whosit's misery may be about to increase... wonder if they have the oomph to take out Nar Shadar?
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I expect it'll depend on what HRE does.
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Speaker's latest post and case for 2-movers is spot on. 
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sunrise089 Wrote:Speaker's latest post and case for 2-movers is spot on.
While I don't necessarily disagree with you (I don't know what I think), I would like to point out that it is not surprising that you agree with Speaker, as you guys come from the same background.
And what works in a CTON / AW MP game may not always be best in a game like this.
Though, you (and Speaker) may very well point out that, at least for India, it's fairly likely to devolve into that for them before too long anyways....
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I really think Sullla just needs to let Speaker have his way with military. I'm remembering just before the CoW war when Speaker pushed for whipping out a bunch of spears and other military. Clearly this is a main reason why they are still in the game in the first place.
They are not going to lose the game at this point because of slightly reduced missionary micro or slightly later grocers. Their economy will be even more dominant in a few turns regardless. We have the benefit of lurking but for all Speaker can see there may be an organized dogpile shaping up to strike at almost any given turn, and that's the only real threat for them to actually lose, at this point. At absolute worst, a few extra knights allows them to have a stronger claim on Centralia or their outer island.
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It's very interesting to see the different playstyles in action, not only the builder v warmonger but also the Single Player V Multi cton AW. The different approches and philosphy have been educational within spullas thread.
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Its certainly preferable to have different perspectives, as you're much more likely to come to the correct conclusion. Most of the time they are on the same page, this is really the first time they've had a prolonged spat. And, really, kudos to them for doing this publicly in the forums . It would be much easier (but far less interesting to the lurkers) for them to hash it out over an IM.
Darrell
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darrelljs Wrote:Most of the time they are on the same page, this is really the first time they've had a prolonged spat.
My sense from a couple of times before (where Spulla mentioned that they had a disagreement on what to build, for example on the Maoi Statues) was that they had previously worked it out over IM. I agree with you that it is certainly nice for them to work it out in public, as it is certainly educational.
Darkmantle Wrote:He needs to whip the shit out of his empire and make a stand, not half heartedly do infrastructure builds to fight someone who whipped his civilization into the ground to hold his territory. Darkmantle Wrote:The problem is if he doesn't pull his finger out soon he is going to be overrun and turn over well developed and high pop cities to Inca and Korea. That might not be too bad for the game, but to not at least try to hold onto his territory would just be a crying shame.
I think this is the problem with posting something: you are doing it with the intention of changing the game. That is the players' role, not the lurkers' role (and especially not a spoiled lurker). In my opinion, posting something with the intent of it changing the game is the most egregious form of spoilers.
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