Suboptimal and Alhambram explore the unknown lands with Norwegian Longships

[Alhambram]

In my game with Denmark, I was able to take city at turn 4 with Two Berserkers greenlined and one yellowlined about 75% health. Usage of farms  and promotion at right moments to heal is critical.
Berserker gets 2 extra movement points in enemy lands, pillaging takes 3 movement points, so they can pillage farm adjacent city first and then attack city at same turn.
Three healtly Berserkers did mean that I could attack next city next turn already, also I did send two Berserkers from Denmark to England to speeden up conquest.
I did smuggle those two Berserkers under sole Danish Longship to prevent them killed by city garrison shots of Utrecht. If Chevduke do same, it mean that besieged city by Danes is exposed for our Longships.

Attacking Utrecht is a out of box idea and interesting! I hasn't even given a thought about it, Danes surely shall be suprised by this! Doing a testgame now with variant of attacking Utrecht.
Pairing up Longboats and Berserkers is correct strategy in this game, Berserker got defense penalty, therefore weak on land when attacked. Longships take blows instead and Berserker indeed lack amphibious penalty.

Also I am thinking to keep city growth at minimum, in Norway cities no beyond size 4, till when majority of religion arrives, cities in Norway can grow to size 10 each, total 900 VP already and more if cities keep growing.

EDIT: so, I am one steering and you one watching over ship, okay!

[suboptimal]

I completely forgot about the extra movement and being able to pillage and then attack with beserkers.     Another reason to have you drive the boat.  All I ask is for a save after each turn so I can take a look at what's going on.

The thing I noticed about the Utrecht attack was that in the early game (pre Turn 15, even pre Turn 20) is that as soon as a beserker shows up in French territory the AI moves its ENTIRE ground force in that direction.  Any attempt by Chevduke to intervene by land that early would get stopped in its tracks.  The attack would also constrict the coastal route via Utrecht but it's a "legitimate" blockage if we're conducting an amphibious landing rather than an inadvertant blockade.  Utrecht also has a Commercial Hub for an extra trade route -- gets the Hacksilver eureka early and more cash out of Swedish trade routes.

If Chevduke does storm southern England and we can slip past to grab Rouen that would make a good jump point for Portiers and Spain.  In my three games so far I've generally built traders straight out of the gate and used the gold to buy beserkers and/or ships early.  If we grabbed both Utrecht and Rouen we could crank out beserkers and longships and go on a Moorish & Mediterranean campaign (and let the Danes keep England). 

Another thing I noticed - the Byzantines seem to like embarking a crapton of units between Italy and Greece.  That'd be the place to farm naval kills, pillage points and Great Admiral points if we can get a half dozen longships down there.  

What were your initial builds at Nidaros?  I took one of two approaches and remain undecided:

- build a second trader followed by some archers until longboats
- build swords until longboats, moving the archer to the Encampment to force new land units to appear in the city center

Oslo's first build was always a harbor, followed by either a trader or longboat.  Stavanger went trader first then settled into units.  Once beserkers were unlocked Stavanger and Oslo built those, Nidaros built longboats and I'd buy beserkers out of Stavanger or a conquered city.

[Alhambram]

Did testgame using your suggestion to go for Utrecht instead Scotland. My initial attempt to go for Scotland first: just one city captured at turn 11 which was most northern city of England. This was case with turn 14.

And pic of turn 14 of your suggested attack on Utrecht and further:
   
Utrecht fell at turn 6, Rouen at turn 10 and Wintanceaster at turn 14. When playing as Denmark, I didn't capture Wintanceaster till after turn 15, so I think that it is possible to take Wintanceaster for us.

I like this plan far much better than my boring and conservative plan to just take Scotland. Your idea to take Utrecht and roll on is brillant, I got tunnel vision and only thought of England/Scotland while Utrecht is much closer tagret, thank you for opening my eyes!
It has higher chance to fail than Scotland plan due possible Danish interference, but it is high risk and reward plan. If it succeeds then Denmark got less cities to conquer and therefore more diffcult to become a monster similar as my Danish testgame.
My boring Scotland plan actually likely results in giving whole United Kingdom except Scotland and France to Denmark on a silver platter.

I did take Poiters at turn 21, with cost of one Berserker out 5. Maybe this time I am going throw an archer somewhere north to bait French army because as you said French army goes after anything that enters its borders.
Then all Berserkers attacking Poiters got higher chance to survive and retreat to sea quickly if French army floods around Poiters. Their army are scary but bad at taking cities, need to wall all captured cities though.

After Poiters try to go for both Paris and Aachen, attack at same time from both northern and western forces French army to split and therefore less dangerous.
It is going be many causalities, but if we get hacksilver and run all trade routes, we can replace dead Berserker with bought Berserker every turn.
Or play safe and go for northern Spanish city states. I got idea to use first settler to settle Sardinia instead Ierland or Iceland which an Norway player normally do.

Sardinia is empty island and settleable, your earlier suggestion to settle upon west point of France brought me upon idea to settle Sardinia and buy Berserkers there to raid/invade Italy and possible further. 
However the road to Sardinia is long and at best I am going found city at turn 38 with settler bought in Stavanger at turn 8, and I just realized that I can shave off 5 turns by buying settler in Rouen at turn 10 instead.
So Sardinia can settled at turn 33 provided that Rouen is taken at turn 10.


I shall post more about my opening and builds in cities. Also thinking about how Chevduke can interference with conquest of Utrecht and further. Need to antipicate their moves.

[suboptimal]

I think we found our opening -- go big or go home at Utrecht. Unlike the conventional "take northern england" approach there is most certainly a higher risk. However, the rewards are also much greater. If we do manage to take those three cities early and fast it sets up a Mediterranean campaign quite nicely.

The big question is whether Chevduke would anticipate that move. I think if they react to it it's too late. With the Danes going first we'll get an early indication as the southernmost longboat can head to Thetford on Turn 1 to see if they're invading. If they do invade in a "typical" opening I don't see how they can interfere at Utrecht (famous last words). When you took Wintancaester on Turn 15 was that going direct from Thetford or conquering Tamworth on the way?

We might be able to get a settler to Sardinia faster by conquering the northermost Spanish city and buying the settler there. Alternatively there's the city-state on the NW coast of Africa that could be taken. IIRC it's right at the Strait of Gibraltar and is close enough to use as an invasion jump point for southern Spain and the rest of the Med while a settler chugs over to Sardinia (if that's even necessary with that city-state taken).

Do you have a save or autosave from the above point I can tinker around in? I'll see if I can take it from your position above to getting one of those cites conquered and cranking out units.

While we haven't mentioned the Swedes yet, I hereby dub them "Grotlizard" as "Bonzaisnot" is a bit rude.

[Alhambram]

Here is the save: EDIT: sorry, sent wrong save first, This is correct one:
  HARALD HARDRADA 14 852 AD.Civ6Save (Size: 700.6 KB / Downloads: 2)

By the way, I bought GA at turn 11 with 755 gold.

I went conquering as Demark this way: Thetford (turn 4) --> Tamworth (turn 9) --> Eoforwic (turn 14) --> Dun Breatann (turn 19) --> Wintcaneaster (turn 20) (with latter two I did split my army)
I need to point out that I did have battering ram at turn 12 which make conquest faster, just 6 berserkers (three from start and two from denmark and final one from GG, so no bought one since money from beginning goes to buying GA).
I went from Tamworth to Eoforwic because it was easier to reach from Thetford and Tamworth while Wintcaneaster got pesky encampment and sea creating chokepoint while Denmark just start with 1 Longship.
Once battering rams bought at turn 12 and newly created Longships arriving out Denmark, conquest went faster.

Need to keep in mind that I never bought Berserkers/Longships in England while playing as Denmark. Chevduke might be pressed to do it if we attack Utrecht.
That is why I set deadline for Wintcaneaster at roughly turn 15. If Chevduke manages to get Wintcaneaster before turn 14 which is really fast, well then nothing do about it and Poiters becomes next target for us instead.

[suboptimal]

I gave the "take the Gibraltar Strait" approach a try. I took the city on Turn 27, trying to use the coast of Spain and Portugal to get extra movement. However, I lost two longships to shore-based attacks en route, so it's not without risk. The settler would have been at that city on Turn 29. One thing I couldn't quite figure out is that the beserkers would occasionally get 3 movement instead of 2 when outside enemy territory. I could probably have that city on Turn 25 or 26 if I was a bit more careful about getting the beserkers moved down there. I'll have to try again tomorrow night. They also built a huscari while I was en route with the main force (sent a longship ahead to scout), raising the city strength from 27 to 44. I tried to lure it out with a builder I poached from Spain but the city-state AI kept the huscari in the city with other units 2 spaces from the city center.

It also never occurred to me in my initial games to purchase the initial GA. Two questions regarding your opening:

- the holy site in Nidaros is to accumulate faith & VP, right?
- I see you built an Encampment on the western Norse coast, presumably for better beserker output there?

[Alhambram]

About our Berserkers getting 3 movement point, that is due Commando promotion: +1 movement and able to climb cliffs. (orginally Commando promotion was cliff climb only, since R&F came out, a patch added +1 movement for all versions of civ 6)
That is why for this scenario I always pick Battle Cry promotion first because it leads to Commando promotion. With 3 tile moving Berserkers (or 5 tile moving in enemy lands) conquering goes much faster!
Third promotion: Urban Warfare: 10+ strength when fighting in a district. Which mean 10+ strength bonus against cities, the cities in this scenario starts to fall down like dominoes.
Fourth promotion: Elite Guard: 1+ additional attack if movement points is left and can move after attacking.
The last promotion bascially turns Berserkers in Viking version of Russian Cossacks and I know from my PBEM 2 game how deadly "can move after attacking" is and additional attack if movement points is left makes cities fall even quicker.

Holy Site in Nidaros is indeed meant to accumulate faith, I also intended to toss down them in Oslo and Stavanger if they reached enough pop to unlock another district slot. I intend to never spend faith to farm as many faith as possible.

For encampments, for starters I did toss down them at turn 3 to keep costs very low, really low! Then in beginning I used Ilkum to create three builders and after that no really good economic policy card available till Naval Infrastructure policy card which doubles harbor adjacency.
+2 gold for foregein trade routes is nice but in beginning it just adds 6 GPT, harbor adjacency gives already 11 extra GPT when using Norway cities only.
Main reason why Naval Infrastructure in my opnion the best economic policy card: when built shipyard, the production bonus from shipyard also doubles. Turning all cities with harbors into good production cities (6 or 8 extra production per city mostly).
So there is little gap between no need for Ilkum and Naval Infrastructure and that can be filled out with Veterancy or +2 gold per trade routes. I decided to make use of Veterancy to complete both encampments in Stavanger and Oslo for merely 2 turns.
In long term build stables there for Machinery boost.

[suboptimal]

Holy Site in Nidaros is indeed meant to accumulate faith, I also intended to toss down them in Oslo and Stavanger if they reached enough pop to unlock another district slot. I intend to never spend faith to farm as many faith as possible.

Was this supposed to read "I intend to never spend faith to farm as many Great Admirals as possible"?  Based on the VP calculations for faith (1 VP per 5 faith at end of game) it may be a good use of faith to buy a GA when the VP benefit of Vinland is worth more VP than the faith.  For example, the 3rd GA to Vinland is worth 300 VP.  It takes 1500 faith to equal that many VP so it would seem that spending less than 1500 faith for recruiting the 3rd GA for Vinland is a better payback for the victory conditions.

[Alhambram]

TheArchduke sent me save, so I played first turn as I always did in my testgames till now. Save password: Alsub

So it starts with our three Longships ready for action! (3 Longships = boost for Heaten Army which unlocks battering ram)
   

I did run simulation after simulation and concluded that Chevduke can possibily already find out about our plan to invade Utrecht, therefore I take no risks here and moved all Longships as south as possible with 2 pillages on way.
   
I pillaged monastery north of Eoforwic and also its northern fish tile. The upper Longboat is going be shot by two encampments, two archers and city garrison, but in all of my testgames it comes off with 50% health and able to promote.
Southern Longboat ignores pillaging and goes all way south to greet Danish invasion force.
Seems that TheArchduke is doing extactly same thing what I did in my Danish openings: pillage monastery two tiles south of Thetford, killing archer (+10 GG points) and attack city with 2 remaining Berserkers with Longboat covering one of them.
Thetford is surely to fall at turn 4 by Danish invasion force.

With 360 gold already earned this turn, I always decided to burn it now for good reasons. Firstly I did purchase two traders, one in Oslo and another in Stavanger, they cost meagerly 90 gold now and each time when techs and civics are completed, the price of traders and districts raises.
And by buying them now and sending to Swedes, they earns their money back in 10 turns already though I intend to send one from Oslo to Danish city Odense due special reason, later more of it.
And so with 180 gold left what to do with it? Answer protect the long-term potential of Oslo!
   
Oslo's problem is that it isn't blessed by double fish tiles as Nidaros and Stavanger, therefore it depends upon farms to grow into big city. Now there is room between Oslo and Swedes which can be used for farm diamond.
If Grotlizard are smart and want to cripple Oslo's growth, they buys all tiles along Oslo's borders. So I buy all tiles now to prevent such scenario and also buy one tile extra for chop soon because in all testgames stupid tile picker chooses tundra forest over choppable plain forest tile.
Grotlizard aren't going be happy when they opens their save, but this is Viking scenario, who claims first, they keep it till end of the time, no playing nice. And Grotlizard has plently room to expand to east and southeast anyways.

Well then, with Feudal contract (useless but +5 against barbs is also useless) and Ilkum in policy slots, I crank out builders in Nidaros and Stavanger while Oslo builds a Harbor for much needed civic boost.
   
When Oslo finishes Harbor, I am going produce a builder there too. Three builders in beginning to improve some plain hills and farms. Also some chop forests with 100% Naval Maritimes policy card soon.
I did toss down commerical hubs in Stavanger and Nidaros to keep costs very low and I adjusted Stavanger's tiles so it grow in 2 turns. The reason for this is that when both Oslo and Stavanger hit size 3, I can toss down encampments for very low cost too before finishing first tech.
It is much better to toss down districts now and build them later for 2 turns instead tossing down them later with build time of 10 turns, after all this is a 60 turn scenario, every turn counts here!

I start with Apprenticeship because second tech is going be finished at turn 7 mostly and when I take Utrecht at turn 6, at least I want able to buy Berserker in Utrecht. After Apprenticeship it is Longships.
I did send starting trader to Kopingsvik for 9 GPT and archer from Nidaros in direction of Utrecht where it can shoot French units from city when I capture Utrecht.

Now the million dollar question, is Chevduke going find out about our plan to invade Utrecht? They may find out at turn 3 when they opens their save in worst case and in best case they finds out at turn 4.
If Danish also smuggles two Berserkers from Denmark to England similar what I did in my Danish playthroughs, then they shall find out at turn 3.
   
I outlined the position of smugglers, at next turn Danish Longship is forced to protect the Berserker two tiles above Utrecht if Chevduke do smuggle Berserkers to England.
In that case I can pin all of three Longships against all coastal tiles next Utrecht before Chevduke can react, this is why I did move all Longships as south as possible this turn.
What if Chevduke don't use smugglers? Then I might pillage a bit more but at other side maybe better to attack Utrecht already with Chevduke finding it out at turn 3 already.

There are several factors here:
- The most northern Berserker is forced to wait one turn to prevent getting shot by Utrecht, I can alternatively protect it with Longship but it however has to leave tile next Utrecht and leaves a opening for Chevduke to push their Longship in it at their turn 5.
By allowing one Berserker wait for 1 turn, capture of Utrecht might be delayed for 1 turn. But there is a way to make Utrecht fall at turn 6 already which brings us at next factor:

-In all games no matter what, Utrecht strength shall drop to 26 at turn 2 due French Knight leaving. Which means our Longships can do decent damage to make conquest certainely at turn 6. At turn 3 Utrecht strength shall raise to 44 as always.
But Chevduke is going to notice it at turn 3 already and attempt to block coastal tiles next Utrecht. I can counter it by blocking all coastal tiles next Utrecht at turn 2 already but it means no further pillaging gains except market of Utrecht's commerical hub.
In this scenario it is therefore important to check where Chevduke's Longship is going. Danish Longship got 6 movement points instead Norway's 8. So if most right coastal tile of Utrecht can't be reached by Danish Longship in 1 turn, then it means that I can make additional pillage with most northern Longship.

-Chevduke finishes their first tech at turn 3 (we turn 4 due slightly lower tech per turn than Chevduke from beginning), it is critical which tech it is. If it is Longships, then it means that Chevduke can buy Longships at turn 3 and have them block Utrecht at turn 4. How do we know which tech they did finish?
Aanswer: send our trader from Oslo to Odense at turn 2. This raises our access view to level where we can see which tech they did complete. That is why I did buy trader this turn and send it to Odense with 6 GPT instead Kopingsvik for 9 GPT.
If Chevduke did indeed finish Longships, that mean that we can't retreat our Longships from Utrecht's coastal waters no matter what. So most northern Berserker has to wait one turn.
If Chevduke didn't finish Longships, then western Longship can scout where their sole Longship is. Is it far away, then I can cover most northern Berserker so he can join attack one turn earlier.

-The final and most dangerous factor: in 9 of 10 games I managed to capture Utrecht at turn 6. 1 of 10 games it failed, because French placed his knight in Utrecht raising its def to 54, making Utrecht very diffcult to capture without casualties or Chevduke maybe even managing to capture Utrecht instead us.
This factor is purely laid in hands of RNG rolls, 1 in 10 chance that everthing goes south, praying here.

So many factors here that can interference conquest of Utrecht, we shall see whether our high risk gamble pays off or not.

[suboptimal]

Looks like a very strong opening! Good thinking abut the trader to Odense for the extra visibility. I think buying the territory at Oslo is also a good move, just want to make sure we stagnate growth until the 50VP per population growth kicks in. Nothing much to add right now -- we'll have to see if/how Chevduke respond to our attack at Utrecht.