[SPOILERS] naufragar, Charriu, and Zalson's Threepenny Opera

[naufragar]

After exulting over getting another happiness through the gold trade with Commodore, you can imagine my head scratching when I got this message.



I might not be a whiz at the diplo screen, but this little caravan sends a clear message.


(Pic taken after I'd made moves in response.)

So what could Commodore's trade message mean? He wants me to mooooove back to Cragscleft? He's hoping his horse archers will cow me? He thinks I need to plant more cottages and win the support of the burghers? Who knows. As far as I know, he has no idea where Cragscleft is and it's sheer luck he picked the city that would be our western limit if I didn't reach across to his home continent. He hasn't canceled the gold for money trade, perhaps trying to eke out the last few coins from me he can? The thought crossed my mind that he was going to take the barb city, but that message certainly doesn't say to me "Don't worry. This stack's not for you." Charriu or Zalson, if you have any ideas what this means, please enlighten me. Other lurkers I imagine have read Commodore and Pindicator working out their obscure form of diplomatic cable.

So I've made the moves you see above. I guess somewhere I had in fact made a spear? Because that's already in Receiving. (Note to newbies, because vets already know this: build spears over axes because you can whip axes in time. If you're attacked by horses, you don't have time to whip the spears. I was focusing on axes, because I wasn't expecting a serious invasion due to logistic difficulties. A mistake.) I've also moved Shipping's bowman out to defend Receiving. Shipping is an extra turn distant, but Receiving is on a hill. Pray for luck. I have yet to sim.

Oh, I sent this message back.




Here's the power difference.


Just eyeballing the forces, it seems pretty obvious that both cities will fall. The question is how bloody can we make it, so we can retake with spears from the mainland. Got to say, nice of Pindimodore to take the first half of the timer. (I can't even hope that this stack is not meant for us, but boy do I wish...)

[Lewwyn]

Oh, I sent this message back.

Why send this message?

[naufragar]

Why send this message?

I interpreted Commodore's message as "leave our continent and get back to Cragscleft, and we can still be friends." I intended mine to be defiant "how about I extend as far as King?" (the nearest Comm city). It was only after I finished the turn that the thought hit me that I don't think Pindicator/Commodore actually know where Cragscleft is!

So, I had intended it to be bravado. I genuinely am not sure what to make of Comm's message. I would've just demanded Shipping and Receiving in his shoes. I also don't know why he announced his attack the way he did and took the first half of the timer. Like I said, in my most inner hopes, I want that message not to be some sort of ultimatum. I just can't figure out any other way to take it. (Like, why Cragscleft instead of anything else? Why offer a trade in return?) But in the heat of the moment, when I figured out suspected that this meant war, I fired back the mirrored demand.

EDIT: I need to put this turn to bed, but it's still bothering me. If Commodore had used two workers, he could have roaded the tile between his hill and mine and hit me with only a turn of warning instead of two. Here's to hoping I have hilariously misread this whole thing and he's taking the barb city or something, but I feel grim.

[Charriu]

Well the first thing that came to my mind is that no city trading or gifting is allowed. Other then that I read it as leave his continent.

[Lewwyn]

If Commodore had used two workers, he could have roaded the tile between his hill and mine and hit me with only a turn of warning instead of two.

[Zed-F]

As a general principle, if I don't understand someone's message to me, and don't have the ability to request clarification, then I would say it's probably better to ignore the message than to respond flippantly. I also agree with Lew's sentiment above.

[naufragar]

As a general principle, if I don't understand someone's message to me, and don't have the ability to request clarification, then I would say it's probably better to ignore the message than to respond flippantly.

This is wisdom. Hopefully if it's a misunderstanding, they read my message as such rather than a grievous insult to their mother's cooking or whatever.

In my defense (although this isn't a real defense), my post makes it seem like I thought about this in-game a lot more than I did. The turn went: "Oh shoot. Commodore is demanding a city. What's this about? Oh shoot, there's a stack headed towards me. How many guys can I get to Receiving in time? Ok. That's a few. Let's make him at least roll the dice. And let's fire back a message of our own." This turn took no longer than any of my other recent ones, and it was only as I kept thinking about it that my confusion grew. (My edit about the road was a good 1.5 hours after I played.) In the heat of the moment, the message had seemed clear. My sin was haste, not a love of randomness (but again, doesn't excuse the play).

If I did read Commodicator right, my message hopefully carries a bit more meaning than flippancy (is that a word?). I interpreted Commodore as wanting me to back down and that this upcoming war wasn't meant to be a vendetta. My message in response was meant to indicate that I consider Shipping and Receiving as vital parts of my empire, worthy of defense, and not jut bold little outposts. I hope that everything that confuses me (why offer cow? why not use combat workers?) indicates that I've read the message wrong. Zed, you're absolutely right that I should've thought before I spoke. Lewwyn, you're spot on that if Commodore were out for my head, he could've made this attack a lot more scary.

In case it wasn't clear from the above, in handling this diplo, I dun goofed.

[naufragar]

I misread.


Pindicator and Commodore took the barb city, so I will muse at my leisure how I was supposed to go from "cow for Cragscleft" to "I'm going to take the barb city." Perhaps it would've been clear if I had eyes on the city.

I've moved the worker back to the hill. He's been bumped off twice. If I knew the neighborhood was going to be so scary, I would've built the road first. I've put a Combat 1 axe on him. It's not much of a deterrence, but Commodore has made mention in the past that he's tempted by light defenses.

Next turn we find out if we have won the Great Library or if we get to put the fail gold to Music.  


I think I am still on this plan. Jungle is getting annoying and I sure would like Metal Casting, but high variance is what I crave.

Here's an overview for fun.


The thought popped into my mind that Creative has been just excellent. Really, really good. You can see me building two markets. Cap already has one. This is my jury rigged happiness helper. I really thought I'd hate them even with Exp.

Let me talk about defense. I toned down some spear builds after Commodore's mini horde moved on. We have 6 cities on our mainland (7th gets founded in 4 turns), and we have 5 over seas. So practically a 50-50 split. Those overseas cities are practically all front line cities, so unlike a land heavy map in which you can beef up your front line and relax the guard in the core, here I need many soldiers, more than I have, in fact. In principle, I'm playing zone defense with a couple of galleys (hence how I was able to get three extra units headed toward Receiving at a moment's notice. I've even recalled a galley from explorer duty. The reserves aren't quite sufficient, all the same. On top of this, this reaction will always be too slow to prevent a dedicated attack. (Commodore could've grabbed Receiving if he wanted, as Lewwyn points out.)

So what's to be done? I am building a few more units to prop up our holdings in Pindicoristan, but other than that, not much. I can't afford enough troops for adequate defense from an attack from Commodore or from BGN with his 3-move galleys. We haven't met a neighbor NW, but when we do, our Moira+Maw island will be at their mercy.

Too many squishy bits.

[Krill]

Speaking as a lurker, my understanding is no cities should be put in the trade screen and sent as a trade to another player.

[naufragar]

Speaking as a lurker, my understanding is no cities should be put in the trade screen and sent as a trade to another player.

Ah. I'll cease then. I had thought (and I think this was Charriu's understanding as well?) that legitimate city trades were banned, although I do admit I've been playing very fast and loose with the "no communication" proviso.



Guess what we got?


So we did indeed land the Great Library and now with all those forests chopped, we can get to turning Bafford's into a real city.

Saw this on civstats.


Rusten revolted into Organized Religion and Slavery last turn. This is how you're supposed to play Spi, I guess. All the whips, then all the caste specialists, then all the whips. I'd like to think because he was in Org. Rel. he didn't just whip a bunch of galleys, but the thought crossed my mind that now that Baffor'ds has the Library, it needs more than one warriro for a garrison.

Our scouting work boat gives us Commodore intel.


I've built improvements and grown pop for him at Shipping and Receiving, so he might still grab those cities, but it looks like he also has considerable back lines. One suspects that these were originally superdeath's back lines, vindicating Commodore's early aggression.

Before this turn, I was drifting off to sleep when my eyes lighted on my Soren Johnson poster. And suddenly I head a voice ask me, "Naufragar, how are you improving your position in RB PB41?" And unto the voice, I said, "I will gain the Music artist and use the beakers from that golden age to make up for the beakers burned on Music." And the voice said to me, "Are you sincere?" And I, "Yes." The voice, "then why are you striving so slowly?" I pondered this for a while, and then I understood. I could've been building wealth this whole time and have drastically reduced my time to Music.


So that's what we're doing. I could've shaved at least 1, maybe 2 turns off the time, but I'm an idiot.

I'm fortifying Receiving. In two turns it will have 3 spears and 3 axes. I know I had just a second ago talked about having a mobile reserve force, but I hope people know I report in a voice of surety when I'm really running around like a headless chicken at an auto-da-fe.