[Spoiler] PB42: Rusten and mackoti play Krill playing Bismarck of Portugal

[Krill]

There is a surprisingly large part of me that is wondering if it is worth just revolting into Caste and losing the turn.

I'm happy with the plan around getting 8 settlers out. I can even stretch it to 9 to get every city settled. 3 on the island, 1 for furs site, 5 on mainland. But only 2 of these cities have inner ring food (Cities F and Z), then cities C and S have outer ringer food, as do the 3 island cities (5 total), and worst of all the furs city (N island B) and City Q are technically filler cities with no unique food resources. So most of these cities don't make much sense to settle before Caste is available.

The cost is significant: likely around 100 hammers and 50 gold (assuming no research which is reasonable, and wealth builds aren't double counted), and around 85 food. But it releases the tech path constraints and tech timings significantly, and it also saves me all the trouble around getting the GP out in the first and second golden ages with the tight timings. The main issue is that if the revolt occurred to early and I lost slavery, I might be ambushed.

OTOH, I might be able to get some court houses down, and then that might bring an earlier FP into play.

Something to ponder.

[Krill]

Turn 113

A turn of ups and downs.

First of all, I have already fucked up the worker micro for MoM because I am a moron. I have not fixed it and I don't know what the damage is, it may not even cost a turn. Probably won't, but I'll admit it here.


Other fuck ups are:




So...I promoted the 7XP chariot to F1, and it still lost an 89% battle. Lesson is, don't attack warriors in cities with flanking chariots. I just find it funny at this point. That's 3 chariot losses, at 99.4%, 89.3% and 78%.

City still died though





Capture gold will propel us to MC end of turn.





So...OH took the barb city on Cairos' continent, and now likely controls the bottle neck. I am going to be very interested in seeing how this plays out. OH could fit another couple of cities up here, he muscles into the ring of fire and stops Cairo from getting the easily defensible bay setup for naval production. OH will also find out he just captured an iron city as well.


Now for the good news:




THERE IS A DOUBLE FOOD CITY! Outside starting location food, this is the third city location I have found that is double food (Woodchopper Ball and Sold American are the other 2, Night Wind has stolen another cities food so doesn't count).

This dot map covers all land tiles save the plains hill to the south and covers as much coast as possible for a 3 city dot map. 4 cities could get more but I reckon W island C will be a good GT city, swapping from workshops (7 total) to farms as needed.





This scout is heading towards OT4E, but I will ensure all FoW along the eastern path of the work boat is uncovered on the way down.





Capital horse, Mardoc? I know the gems must have been popped by RNG.





22 food to Gav. This is closing rapidly.

[Krill]

T114

Picture dump time.










22 fpt down on Gav, but I'm about to whip forges so...

[Krill]

...T115




























Dropped to 42fpt below Gav, but costs are the iffier issue. One settler out, another due to be whipped T118

[Krill]

Posting now before I log in.

Gav should not have declared war, because that would be a double move.

He could log in and declare war after I play my turn, but that means I move first on T117 and TX is safe.

If he sits on the border of TX and offers OB I reject it, and I believe the borders expand pushing the galley back. The main issue is protecting cities because Gav has no reason to leave me alone.

[Krill]

Turn 116

Turns out I was overly paranoid. Gav just turned around and started scouting with a chariot (note: not difficult for him to be a pain in the arse, and it would be a rational decision at this point for him to do that after I've rejected his offer for OB and resource trades given in game position).




My scouting showed nothing, so I'll screenshot next turn. superjm is ripping the tech tree apart, but he just screwed himself IMO: I don't have to worry about an Astro bulb from him, so he isn't a threat. He has to research Astro now, or try for an invasion with galleys and privateers. His capital is also naff, so I'm not seeing why he would use Bureau at high cost when he could get Fuedalism for Vassalage and reduced unit costs and PRO longbows? Seems like a poor decision to me.





Lewwyn has not barbbusted his island, and there are city ruins I've sailed past. They could be barb cities, but...he has no competition for these cities? Why wouldn't he capture them. And he has potentially lost one city to a barb attack in the past. Is he getting overrun?





I'm hopeful of find a path through here, but not expecting it. I will back track if I don't find one next turn.





We have a broken donut for a map. There are multiple places that individual players can route their own units through, but I don't have that. I have a route through 3S and MtK to get ships in and out of the western ocean and in and out of a bay shared with OH, but not directly into the donut ocean. In fact, there is that one tile straight that it looks like OH will control with the top of Cairo's continent, I can cut the edge off with 2 forts on plains tiles. I'm going to have to scout out OT4E's land. I'm not convinced I'm ahead of him in any meaningful measure except city number (and not in population)





superjm has CS, and CoL as a minimum over me. I don't know if he has Calendar: He has spices and incense at a minimum, but he also has gems, gold and ivory, plus Rep happy, and forges in all his core cities (...why has he rushed them? He has OR though, and no cheap buildings so it makes sense IMO, if he is planning to build his way into the Ren era).

The next is just a stream of consciousness: I will have a full and final update on Sunday, but I'm trying to sort out plans for when I write that.





The settler is going to the City F site. Galley is whipped in WB on T118 and moves into SW. The settler is whipped from AM on T118 and loads into the galley on T120, to head for the marble location to claim that island. The archer from MtK is going over there as city defender. The galley will have to return for a worker pair. The city is just a cost but Lewwyn is claiming islands so I want a sign to say "This far, and no further". ITM is growing on a forge, Kalamazoo grows to size 9 and then starves (drop grass farm, pick up double plains hill mine). LBJ has the market chopped and then starts on the forge (happy more than hammers). BCR finishes the forge and then I decide between military for a bit or wealth, and how to fit in that settler build. Probably straight onto the settler build and stagnate, there are no workers there atm, and no tiles to grow onto.





ST builds market, but farm the fp to grow to size 5-6 and whip the market. Then stagnate of the plains hill to delay growth? Whipping is better though, and happy isn't problem if I'm keeping it small due to costs. SA is growing for great person plan, double whip the lighthouse and I will need to whip a library if only because without culture, it will lose the three coastal tiles in a few turns with FaL pops 40% borders.





SA has forge chopped this turn, then onto the settler and whip that T118, then regrow. Don't want to mine any of the hills, going to windmill them, so save the worker turns. NW, still planning to whip into the ground, but intend for 2 settlers for Cities Q and S. Workers are all fucked though. I need to reposition them all, more like mack, you get that pleasure.





The worker at HWD, and two workers from MtK will chop 3 forests for a library (need to do this to hold the clam. whip a work boat from HWD at size 2 (it's a crap city, who cares if it gets delayed). Then City F will pop borders, hook the plains cow and the rest is standard. 3S is building a forge because going for broke and I don't like paying for units. TX just whipped a lighthouse so it can grow without the food resource, then back to wealth?









In a couple of turns, ST will work both gems again, and I will work both furs tiles (not working either atm) and that is 20 extra commerce. Even now, commerce specials are the difference between being broke and researching.





34 food down on Gav, only 4 pop growths this turn though.

[Krill]

Turn 117




I think Lewwyn popped a GM from the Colossus.





I lost trade routes to Gav and OT4E. I don't know why, anyone got any ideas? we have a path through this area, and I don't see how a barb city could have spawned in this area, the only remaining idea I have is someone used a galley blockade function but there are no wars.

This is not critical, but losing the gold for gems trade may be problematic in a dozen turns or so.





Tours is OT4Es 5th city, so I reckon we find the capital shortly. It looks like Gav, OT4E and superjm are all on the same continent (along with Elkads starting location?)





superjm has just ignored IW and rushed straight through to CS. I've said I wonder why, but look at his capital:




He has Academy, Forge, granary and library that I can see. And walls, for some reason. The academy is good, I had a thought that he might try to push out a GE to rush MoM but there is no forge in the Mids city so I believe MoM is safe from him. But 2 cottages and a popped gems through Bureau?!




I just went through all the reports, and confirmed that Free at Last popped borders eot98, library built eot93. It should reach 100 culture eot143, and it already has a judaism spread. Once it pops borders, it should claim the clam from City F. I was originally planning to triple chop a library, but only because I thought it was much closer to 100 culture. As it is, double chop a granary T121 and whip a lighthouse after 1 chop on T129 (growth@2 eot126 and regrowth@2 eot129) with a single grass farm completed. The turn of revolt to caste is still up in the air, but borders will pop from a caste artist, not a library.








I need the gold happy to get both of these cities to max size. Or to trade for ivory, silver (no one has silver) or whales. Also note MtK borders pop, at this point the entire continent will be barred from popping barbarians. A red letter day for me. Or not, given that the red is from by dumb chariots blood.

That said, micro stuff first. LBJ has a plains forest chopped next turn to complete a market, then builds a forge: the second plains forest is chopped T122 to complete the forge, then onto wealth.

MtK overflows from the market into the forge this turn, works the plains forest next turn and then max food for 2 turns to finish the forge eot120. As we are saving gold those turns, the market %age modifier gives more gold, than the hammers turns into wealth from a forge first approach would generate: The forge needs to save a turn to be able to put a turn into wealth to make gold, otherwise it just generates overflow into the next build and the gains would not be realised until the next build item is completed.

Growth of these two cities depends on sharing the overlapping grassland and lakes tiles to reach the maximum size. LBJ needs to work 7 plains cottages, 1 unique grass cottage, 2 sheep, and 2 grassland windmills, and there are two shared grassland cottages. Size 12, up to 14. MtK needs to work 5 plains cottages, a grassland mine, 3 unique grassland cottages, horse, corn and those two shared grassland cottages. Size 11, up to 13. Happy cap for both cities will be size 10 unless I can trade for further happy reources.

The plan is to grow MtK up to size 10 (or 12 if we get the gold back) on all of the available food neutral tiles first. Once MtK reaches the chosen pop size, move the population over to the plains cottages, and let LBJ grow on the food neutral tiles; LBJ will still grow, but slowly, and onto the shared plains tiles so we can get them grown sooner.

tl;dr: Grow MtK to size 10 ASAP, then stagnate it whilst growing LBJ to size 10, and improve the overlapping tiles first. Build wealth after the market>forge builds complete.





Looked at the worker movements. Can't chop the forests into market fast enough, going for the forge first with a whip at size 5. Corn is shared with AM whilst AM stagnates on the settler.




Going to have to grow to size 8 (and finish the axe for the island cities) and work an unimproved river plains tile, growth@8 eot119. Then hits 16hpt (because of the plains tile) to finish a settler eot124, alternative choice is to build wealth. Settler, or a single turn of 40% above breakeven slider is the choice.




As stated previously, JJ is going to get to take the corn (but not the sheep). I'm going to have to get the lighthouse here at some point, but for now I'm just growing on this rather than wealth because I need these hammers to get it before the golden age. I'm just aiming for size 4 and the quickest settler whip I can get to now: I have no idea when the golden age will start.




Don't moan, I know this city looks dreadful. The settler is whipped next turn, and settles marble city T124. I'm now stuck splitting the single corn between two cities so I believe that was the last chip AM will complete (TX will whip the forge). The river grassland will be farmed T119 and the plains river tile T121, and wealth will be built once the settler is completed.





Galley is whipped T118, then hide overflow behind wealth, grow to size 6 and triple whip a settler. Growth@6 eot122, settler whip T124? The plains hill will be mined T123 (worker micro found to fit into a galley transport on T126 to go over to the island) The galley will have return on T125 and leave on T126, and can return again T127 to load up a second worker and settler, leaving T128. This fits with the settler from BCR loading as the third settler.





Changing my mind over a settler from here: after the lighthouse whip, there isn't going to be time. Going to have to just go with the forge whip and market whip for happy and grow for the GM production. I'm not selling the excess furs: there is no one that has anything to trade for them. I'd trade them to OH for dyes or to Lewwyn for Silks (this is preferable).




Question for lurkers: what next, library, or lighthouse? The grass hill will be mined for use at size 3. Also note we need 4 workboats building from SW and WB for the island food resources, and caste artists may be available at some point in the next 10 turns. But the library is still needed for the Industrial NE.




Work boat whipped T120, clam hooked T123. Any requests for next build item here? Given the difficulty of growing to size 4 and the soon to be lack of a whip...lighthouse? And pop borders with caste artist when possible?


Diplo screens in order of score:

OK, comment time: I no longer believe I will be able to get Machinery fast enough to make the tech path work. If MoM is due eot126, then I can trigger a GA at any point necessary.

But I'm not going to be the player to make that decision: mackoti, that decision is going to be yours. The more I look at the game, the more I think that Serfdom is going to be important to get the tile improvements down if Machinery is delayed, but the great people production is a problem. I think we might end up delaying the GA for too long, and damage a lot of the new cities. I am very tempted to burn a turn revolting into Caste. Very tempted. Then we can save the golden age for whenever it fits best. What I'm trying to figure out if when, from T127 onwards, we can do without the whip. Anyone have any views on this burning a turn? And does anyone have a link to the number of cities to turns for revolt equation?

[Dreylin]

Stormy Weather (without Caste): Library double whip, regrow on WB for Clams, then Lighthouse.

Caste switch: what's the military exposure from losing access to the whip?

[Krill]

Library double whip at size 5? Eot117 granary is at 61/60 and food box is 12/24

[Krill]

Military exposure from Caste is surprisingly limited.

OH will always present a threat, but we can cover his entire core and scout for military build up, even fog bust every tile if we wanted. Lewwyn is far away and he has routes to us from the sheep city area west of MtK, and through the island we're about to colonize. Then there is superjm who has lower power than us, no IW even though he is Rome, and can't bulb Astro anymore. So...I'll say limited risk, and manageable if power is kept up and we have sentries out.