RB Political Discussion Meta Thread

[Krill]

Because the mods here are unwilling to allow discussion on this forum, I have made a quick topic for the ongoing discussion on Brexit stuff: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/v5X3YfrcQcc8

Please note, any insulting or verbal abuse and I'll just up ban the individual, rather than close the whole discussion down.

Brick, Sulla, T-Hawk, whichever mods are closing the threads, do it if you want. One way or another the discussion is going to happen.

Edit: Post updated.

[Gustaran]

Let me start off by saying that in general, I am very thankful that people are willing to spend their free time here to fill the role of a moderator.

Nevertheless, I wholeheartedly agree with Krill, that the current handling of the situation is rather disappointing.

- If according to forum rules there is an off-topic subsection and political discussion is allowed, these threads should be treated like all other discussion on the forums.

- If a member clearly breaches all rules of courtesy and starts insulting people in a thread, is in turned warned yet shows no understanding whatsover, it is absolutely mind-boggling that the moderator response is to close the whole thread down. To hand out a (temporary) ban was absolutely necessary to uphold certain standards.

- If you feel certain people are generally unable to lead a civil discussion when it comes to politics, use thread bans. I am sorry, but your behaviour looks like you are afraid of confrontation with single members. Collective punishment is completely useless on an internet forum. Or what are you planning to do if I enter a PBEM thread and start insulting people? Close the thread and/or the game down?


@Krill: Maybe put something relating to Brexit in the title so discussion stays more focused? I assume we all know what is going to happen to the political discussion thread, if there is another terror attack anywhere in the world...

[Krill]

Done.

[BRickAstley]

I am completely on board with allowing continued off-topic political discussion. As I stated in the other thread, I felt that a temporary closing would be helpful, but my intention was not and is not to shut down anyone being able to discuss long term.

I agree there could have been better methods to achieve that, I am certainly no expert. I'll look to continue learning how to best handle specific situations as they arise.

If you want to rebrand this as the general political discussion thread, *or* to keep this one specifically Brexit focused, either is fine by me.

[BRickAstley]

- If you feel certain people are generally unable to lead a civil discussion when it comes to politics, use thread bans.

Please note that the forum software currently in use doesn't allow for this. A user is either completely banned from the forum, or not at all.

[darrelljs]

I'd like to note the original thread title was "Brexit" .

The Apolytaclypse is a sobering example of user bans being a cure worse than the disease.  I'd hoped RB was the rare exception to the Internet; a community capable of having reasoned, courteous discourse on the most controversial of topics.  I was wrong.  We're a gaming community, and a blanket ban on political discussion feels like a a small price to pay to avoid creating a toxic environment.

Just my $0.02.

Darrell

[scooter]

I don't have a strong opinion on whether the politics ban is permanent or lifted. Ideally, I'd prefer it was allowed if contained to one thread, but I long ago bailed on that thread because a couple specific people uhh... weren't behaving the best.


It seems we need to choose between 1) being willing to give users temporary bans for ruining that thread or 2) banning a politics off-topic outright. Neither feels great, but I don't think there's a door number 3 that's satisfying. I think I'd slightly lean towards #1 because I did enjoy for awhile reading a wide spectrum of opinions before it got frequently hijacked into a ragefest. #2 wouldn't bother me too much either, though.

[Mardoc]

FWIW, in the last week or so before the previous thread was closed, I wrote about five angry posts. Fortunately I had enough self-control to delete them all before posting. I didn't miss the temptation.

[Gustaran]

- If you feel certain people are generally unable to lead a civil discussion when it comes to politics, use thread bans.

Please note that the forum software currently in use doesn't allow for this. A user is either completely banned from the forum, or not at all.

Um, do you rate your authority as a moderator so low, that you are unable to prevent toxic users from posting in a certain thread unless the software gives you the technical means to do so? How about you announce to a user he is thread-banned and will receive a full ban if he doesn't comply? 

As I stated in the other thread, I felt that a temporary closing would be helpful

That might indeed be a good idea if things get out of hand in the heat of a moment. However, this case was not a problem of an unfortunate singular loss of self-control, but a user openly defying moderator warnings quite a bit after the infraction and ignoring calls for civil behaviour.
In my opinion, the whole thread should have been moderated more strictly from the beginning. I accept that this is a somewhat difficult task due to cultural differences  - what is considered free speech in the US may be hate-speech in Germany - but I still feel the effort should have been made.

The Apolytaclypse is a sobering example of user bans being a cure worse than the disease.  I'd hoped RB was the rare exception to the Internet; a community capable of having reasoned, courteous discourse on the most controversial of topics.  I was wrong.  We're a gaming community, and a blanket ban on political discussion feels like a a small price to pay to avoid creating a toxic environment.

I don't know what the Apolytaclypse is, but I can understand your view.

It seems we need to choose between 1) being willing to give users temporary bans for ruining that thread or 2) banning a politics off-topic outright. Neither feels great, but I don't think there's a door number 3 that's satisfying.

While I think it reflects rather poorly on RB that the only controversial topics that can be discussed seem to be related to gaming, I think you make a very good point. I will admit I somehow understand people that come home after a long day of work, want to relax while reading their favourite gaming forum and accidently click on the polictical discussion thread... 

Still, I think the choices you have mentioned are spot-on and I think the community should indeed make a formal decision:

a) Either ban politics discussion outright
b) Allow a heavily moderated political discussion thread and issue bans if needed


As I said, I have no problem if the majority of forum members decide they want to keep RB strictly about games only.
But what I severly dislike is the current situation, where we have a political discussion thread that keeps getting out of hand and is then locked/unlocked without any consequences for users and no recognizable long term strategy by the moderating team.

[Krill]

I am completely on board with allowing continued off-topic political discussion. As I stated in the other thread, I felt that a temporary closing would be helpful, but my intention was not and is not to shut down anyone being able to discuss long term.

I agree there could have been better methods to achieve that, I am certainly no expert. I'll look to continue learning how to best handle specific situations as they arise.

If you want to rebrand this as the general political discussion thread, *or* to keep this one specifically Brexit focused, either is fine by me.

Given that there is currently no option to ban people from threads, only fora, then I think using QT as an isolated, quarantined politics discussion base is a reasonable compromise for all of us. It allows discussion to continue, but if we want or need to we can close that QT and restart. We can password protect them, or ban individuals by IP.

I will go much farther at this point though. I think this is a good stepping stone to finding something more permanent. OTOH, if individuals are going to chase the discussion through multiple internet locations, I don't see an option except to ban them from everything, from all fora. This is not something I think is ideal. I have critiqued that s strategy before, where cliques on Reddit shadowban individuals who have posted on specific subreddits from Bunch's of different subreddits. In this instance though, I would only suggest it as a reasonable action if an individual were to carry on with abusive behaviour in multiple locations. I am not saying that any individual yet warrants this.

I have no interest in a politics thread. I am only interested in discussing the mechanics of how Brexit will unfold, the choices that the politicians make and how the votes unfold. The QT linked above, IMO, should only to be used for Brexit discussion. If anyone else wanted to link a general politics QT, then that's their business; I have no interest in reading or contributing to such a discussion.