RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Cyneheard]

Does no one see a difference between Whosit giving away colonial possessions (Centralia) from Jowy's gifting of cities that were on the same continent? Whosit isn't denying Korea anything that they'd have otherwise captured, and that's a big difference IMO.

[m4gill4]

IMO, all rules in an RB game should be supplemented by and interpreted consistently with long-standing RB principles, including playing a game to your fullest effort even in the face of tough odds and not making cheese moves. Suiciding troops and city gifting when facing elimination would squarely violate both of those.

I strongly agree with this statement. That's what I came to watch this thread for, I wanted to see all those RB masters whom I've been lurking for years fight it out for all they were worth, RB style!

Someday it would be great to see a RB Veterans only game with read-only player threads and a public lurker thread. I'm a big fan of the writeup pages of lots of players here, it would be rad to see them all pitted against one another!

[scooter]

Those sentiments are nice and everything, but they're also coming from people who haven't actually played in these games. My point in saying that is - when it's just an online game, I don't really blame players for not wanting to slog out several more weeks/months of a lost cause just for the enjoyment of other players/lurkers. I'm not saying you should quit, but I'm saying in this case I don't really fault Whosit for speeding up his own death (he had no idea Spullla was coming for his central cities) because he no longer has any chance at this game.

Short version of that: just remember they're playing for their own enjoyment and not yours .

[Selrahc]

I don't really fault Whosit for speeding up his own death (he had no idea Spullla was coming for his central cities) because he no longer has any chance at this game.

Yes. This. As far as Whosit is concerned the central cities are way out of the line of fire. So his game if he didn't gift them away would be to have 3 cruddy island cities and spend the 30 or so turns before someone puts him out of his misery funnelling gold to Holy Rome and Ottomans.

As far as I can see he really did try his best to defend his land based possessions. It may not have been the best anyone could do, since he didn't bring out the slave whip enough, but he was clearly trying. In his thread he was talking about troop movements, making deals for unsustainable research to get engineering and combat simulations of forthcoming battles. It was only when his military situation completely collapsed that he started making plans to exit with the most benefit to his allies.

[Shoot the Moon]

2. Rolan started the Taj Mahal in the capital. We can whip it to make it faster. The workers also went to chop.

It's near certain that Krondor is the location where Taj is under construction. This city can only get 15 base shields/turn (38 shields/turn with multipliers), but there are some forests south of the city that could be chopped. I'll be able to watch the city over the next couple turns and figure out an ETA for the wonder, see if we have a realistic chance to steal it. I think we can if we can get any extra gold from plako or Dantski.

Any bets on who gets the Taj? I assume HRE's capital has a higher hammer rate than Krondor, and thus that Sulla will underestimate their ability to complete it.

[novice]

Any bets on who gets the Taj? I assume HRE's capital has a higher hammer rate than Krondor, and thus that Sulla will underestimate their ability to complete it.

Krondor's probably building a university, when that completes Sulla will realize that Rolan is building the Taj Mahal.

My money's on India getting the wonder.

[Sir Bruce]

I strongly agree with this statement. That's what I came to watch this thread for, I wanted to see all those RB masters whom I've been lurking for years fight it out for all they were worth, RB style!

Someday it would be great to see a RB Veterans only game with read-only player threads and a public lurker thread. I'm a big fan of the writeup pages of lots of players here, it would be rad to see them all pitted against one another!

Although Whosit is currently the guilty party of "cheese moves", I would say that most if not all teams in this game have shown they are willing to leverage quirks of the rules as much as possible in achieving their own objectives. Jowy's own gifting of cities, Kathlete pillaging India's out of border improvements during a NAP, Spullla micromanaging their log-in times to ensure turn order, etc, etc.

IMO, the players have shown time and again through their actions alone that if it's not explicitly against the rules, it's fair game. And when a team complains, it's not that a move is cheesy per se, but that the cheesy move hurt them. I do not believe Spullla would be complaining if Rome had smashed Korea in the current war and Korea gifted India a city or two. Instead, they'd be saying how it's a little cheesy, but those are the rules that apply to everyone and it just worked out nicely for them!

[sunrise089]

I wanted to weigh in on the current Mali/India GPerson negotiation, and the lack of parallels to the RB-Banana relationship in the demogame. Basically Sullla is asking for a GProphet and Dantski wants a GPerson+something else in return. Sullla basically said "not happening." This surprises me, since this is definitely an opportunity where an unbalanced trade should be well worth the diplo. Dantski is neither a threat to win nor the only remaining potential rival to India, so trades aren't a zero sum game. By giving something free to Dantski India could gain some more diplo credit, valuable since their only potential rival sits on the other side of Dantski's land. And what would it cost them?

Anyways, I notice how different this attitude is than in the apolyton game where RB and Banana both engaged in one-sided deals in order to cultivate a relationship. I don't think Sullla has changed, but rather he views Mali's past actions as having forfeited that sort of relationship. But even if that's true and he's playing only in very Machiavellian terms, is propping up Dantski by way of a city spot really a bad idea if it gets India what they want in the short term?

[pocketbeetle]

Agree with Sunrise above.

I was slightly disappointed to see Sullla & Speaker return to the school of 'no free favours' when they requested cash for those Knights from Korea.

Ask for a loan? Sure.
Restrospectively trying to charge for gifted units? Meh.

[Kyan]

Hmm, i don't think Whosit has done a lot wrong. As far as i can tell, he has no idea that Spullla were intent on taking out his cities on the centre ring. If he had suddenly gifted the mainland cities just as one of the folks had their army on the border- well, that's a different story.

With his mainland cities doomed, it just seems to me he doesn't want to sit around and play with his two colonial cities waiting for someone to come finish him off. Yea, it's annoying from Team Spullla's PoV but unless Whosit has developed some kind of psychic foresight then i don't really see much cheesiness there to be honest.