[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England

[GermanJoey]

Yikes, that start is spicy. I like civ on the way down. Have you narrowed down your thoughts here?

[Krill]

I need to test the micro for a Fishing/Mining start holds (pretty sure it holds all the way to a second settler whip around T45, either as a double whip if not CHM, or a triple whip if CHM).

I also need to see what it looks like if we don't get a second worker out, and instead just go straight into a settler>overflow hammers into granary. As it is, start techs matter because we will accrue a minimum of 14 food to get the workboat out. I am unsure what happens if we just go straight to size 2 and don't head for BW, but...T25 for 1 worker and three improved tiles but on of them is a dry rice?!

I'm starting to cool a bit on Fishing/Mining, but that doesn't mean I like the other choices. I actually really, really wanted to pick England and Ragnar, but I don't see Ragnar holding out, or Hannibal, and this start feels like it needs happy, and the earlish granary to catch up on expansion.

[Krill]

Tidying up the micro for a worker first start: worker@size1, worker eot11, wheat improved t17, work grass hill forest for 4 turns, grass forest for 1, growth@2 eot20, workboat eot20, work wheat/grass hill forest T21, fish hooked t22, rice hooked T22. Growth@3 eot24. Warrior1 eot24. Worker1 completes chop T26, either worker2 eot28 or settler1 eot30 (with worker1 second chop t30). Worker2>settler1 would be eot33 for the settler.

[GermanJoey]

This certainly is a great start for Fin. You could always first-pick Ragnar or Hannibal if you want.

[Krill]

It is tempting to 5th pick Hannibal and just see what is available on the way back. I could probably finagle a granary chop in a worker first scenario around T35.

[GermanJoey]

Here's a spreadsheet if you want to play with it:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...sp=sharing

I won't get to messing around with it until tonight.

[Krill]

Looking at it more, I think a worker first start will not be that much slower. The biggest problem is finding the 30 hammers for the work boat, but the real difference is the commerce for work boat first.

So even though I've said I wanted England, I have had the idea of Boudicca slamming about my head. Can't really duplicate Boudicca. I think she is the real first pick.

[Krill]

Thanks, but I'm going to go bed and sleep on it, and use that tomorrow. I wonder how a Fishing or Mining civ works in a BW rush, with FIN and workboat first. If that opens up the Fishing/Agri and Agri/Mining civs then we can probably do either a Ragnar/Hannibal or Civ first pick.

[Krill]

Wait, it's trivial.

Assuming none EXP, it is 12 turns working a 5 yield fish, so 24 or 36 commerce from the tile, and 36 food. Growth@2 eot11, growth@3 eot22 if wanted and even with an unwhipped worker eot18 that is a wheat tile hooked t24. Worker first grows eot20 and hooks fish t22 with a t17 wheat hook up. So it's obviously more commerce from the workboat first and greater output from being at size 2.

So it's just better to go work boat first and suffer the lack of warrior and scout.

[GermanJoey]

I tried four different start variations in the google sheet: (you can see them as separate tabs at the bottom of the workbook)

1. Workboat -> Grow to 2 -> Worker -> Grow to 3 -> Chop Settler
2. Workboat -> Worker -> Grow to 2 -> Grow to 3 -> Chop Settler
3. Worker -> Chop Workboat -> Grow to 2 -> Grow to 3 -> Settler
4. Worker -> Workboat -> Grow to 2 -> Grow to 3 -> Chop Settler

Variation 1 is the clear winner; it finishes its settler on T31, and has 1f in its bin and 29h into a second worker at EOT 32. Second place was variation 3, which finishes its settler on the same turn but has 0f in its bin and only 24h into the second worker EOT 32.