[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England

[Krill]

Well, I can get a Fishing/Mining civ to a eot26 second worker, eot33 settler and eot34 granary. 2 improved tiles and no forests though. Food box 11/24, size 2 city and already in slavery.

And all the forests are covering grasslands. If we want to cottage the capital, they have to go, we only have 6 grasslands and only one of them is on a river. It's somewhat hopeful to expect Hannibal to be around by this point, but Carthage looks to be a bit naff anyway unless we pick EXP, I don't like Rome and Portugal still requires that we bulb Astro (and the UB is on a different tech path to Emancipation anyway). But we can pick any FIN leader here.

[GermanJoey]

Of the 9 civs you listed, there's 5 that stick out to me as worth considering:

America - Drafted Minutemen coming off ships could create havoc in an amphibious invasion.

Carthage - The Numidian cavalry is ignorable for this map I think, but the Cothon will be a top-tier UB considering that we'll want to settle along coast because of Fin. Would be an ideal civ for Pacal.

England - Stock Exchange is ehhhh, but the Redcoat will be amazing. It will come right at the time we'll want to do a second war of expansion and could create a victory where we'd otherwise have none.

Portugal - Useful UB, but, since we're Fin and will want to emphasize coast anyways, the UB will be incredibly useful.

Rome - The forum is likely ignorable (but hey, we'd want one in our NE city), but the Praetorian will be good. For Boudica, we'll be able to get Amphib Praets with just a Barracks and a Colloseum. That could really help an early war of expansion; it could even enable a partial war of expansion that simply takes over all nearby islands and cripples a competing civ's access to the water for later conquest. (a tactic I had success with in PB18 and PB37)

For these, I'd rank them like this:

1. Carthage or England
3. Portugal
4. Rome
5. America

As for whether Carthage or England is better, I'm not sure. What I can say for sure is that I had Carthage in PB22, which was also played on a Huge Big & Small map, and it was pretty fucking amazing.

[Krill]

Hannibal or England. Your choice. I can accept Portugal or Carthage with no real difficulty, but I can see both going. Rome probably as well. I'm not sure how people will look at England, but there are 11 more people to pick after us, do you think all 4 Fishing/Mining civs will go? Because Hannibal can work with any of these choices, even America.

[GermanJoey]

Regarding the GLH: my initial feeling is fuck no. At least not without an Ind leader. We only have five forests in the BFC and we're planning to burn at least two of them on a settler and granary. Furthermore, considering we're planning to pick a leader with two of Fin/Agg/Cha, we won't have any start-accelerators like Imp or Exp has access to. We won't even have the LH discount from Org. I'm guessing that most other civs in the game will also be starting coastal, considering that this is a Big & Small map. At least a lot of them.

tl;dr is that we're in a highly disadvantageous position for the GLH considering our planned picks. If you want the GLH, you should consider other leader options!

[Krill]

(I was considering GLH if we got shafted on leader but wanted IND to help make banks cheaper as we'd already picked England)

[GermanJoey]

Well, I can get a Fishing/Mining civ to a eot26 second worker, eot33 settler and eot34 granary. 2 improved tiles and no forests though. Food box 11/24, size 2 city and already in slavery.

And all the forests are covering grasslands. If we want to cottage the capital, they have to go, we only have 6 grasslands and only one of them is on a river. It's somewhat hopeful to expect Hannibal to be around by this point, but Carthage looks to be a bit naff anyway unless we pick EXP, I don't like Rome and Portugal still requires that we bulb Astro (and the UB is on a different tech path to Emancipation anyway). But we can pick any FIN leader here.

Exp isn't a necessary condition for Carthage. Exp saves 40 hammers off the Cothon, which does help you get them up fast and everywhere, but it's still an extremely good UB.

I don't see why Portugal requires an Astro bulb. Isn't the Carrack still at Optics?

[Krill]

yeah, but the problem is if you don't bulb Astro, and your opponent does, you are 4K beakers down in the race to frigates. So you are somewhat forced top do at least a single bulb to help out in the beaker race. Astro is over 4.4K beakers in this game btw.

The Astro bulb is by no means an immediate necessity, but I played Portugal in PB42 and it was rough, I didn't even make it to Economics. But that was due to other reasons, I could still have done an astro bulb.

[GermanJoey]

Hannibal or England. Your choice. I can accept Portugal or Carthage with no real difficulty, but I can see both going. Rome probably as well. I'm not sure how people will look at England, but there are 11 more people to pick after us, do you think all 4 Fishing/Mining civs will go? Because Hannibal can work with any of these choices, even America.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of those civs will go eventually. England will 100% get picked at some point, as will Carthage. Hannibal... I'm not sure what people's general feeling on the guy is. I think he's the leader I personally want to play the most? That said, I don't think he will open up as much of an advantage as the Cothon or the Redcoat.

[Krill]

Let's go England and see what happens then.

[Krill]

Picked England. If we can sneak Hannibal, that'd be great IMO. Back ups are Boudicca (because I'm angry and want to hurt people), Ragnar (because I'm angry and want to sulk in my corner of the world), Mansa (because SPI seems to have relevance at last). If all those are gone I'm going to go and warrior rush someone.