|
[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England
|
|
Thanks for the spreadsheet fixes! I agree that the spreadsheet is a bit overcomplicated at this point, lol..
Your microplan is interesting... I can see it being great if our scout finds a land of milk and honey somewhere out in the fog. In general though, I feel uncomfortable about early clear-cutting microplans like this. You've got your second worker earlier, sure, but you've only got 2 improved tiles and nothing else to grow on. That is to say, even though you have two workers, you actually have less worker turns invested in improvements than any of the plans with one worker! I also feel that it's also unwise to compare microplans just based on their total output after N turns. Saved forests can be super useful for later; e.g., chopping a single forest into a forge or library in order to enable a quick 1-pop whip can be huge. That said, perhaps a higher emphasis on early chopping is warrented for a leader without early foodhammer-accelerators, e.g. Ragnar. For a Cha leader, I think we'll want to try to save chops to enable 1-pop whips whenever we can, as that's the one situation where we get "free" hammers compared to others.
Looking at my microplan from last night, I wonder why I don't whip the settler. I mean, might as well, right? We already spent the Anarchy turn. Gonna try that tonight.
September 12th, 2019, 13:49
(This post was last modified: September 12th, 2019, 14:01 by Krill.)
I think it's a catch-22 (or 33 in this situation?): Chop the forests? Then you can have the second worker to improve the capital whilst first improves the second city, but no forests for later needs. Don't chop the forests? Then one has to choose between improving second city food, and the capital, but you can still spend the 12 workers you don't have to chop the forests to catch up.
The forests are going to go, that isn't really a question. Do they go before Maths or after? I can't see them waiting that long. I'd like to save one of them, but frankly mining the grass river hill is a better choice IMO. If we were playing Joao I would be hesitant of speeding up the start but we are looking at playing Hannibal of England. So I'm not fussed about clear cutting when we can then get the rice hooked by T40, as well as a further food resource in the second city by that time. Bringing forward the settler will be useful if there is a good city with an easy to hook 5 or 6 food land tile we can settle for inner ring. In that circumstance, getting the settler 5 turns sooner matters. I want a plan for if we see that second city site of milk and honey around the corner, if we find a decent copper location with decent food that can sit at size 2 and build another worker for us. I'm still looking at alternative double worker strategies that include getting a plains hill mine. In fact: I should look at a quick size 3 whip into the second worker as well, to get the granary before the settler and see what that looks like.
September 12th, 2019, 14:11
(This post was last modified: September 12th, 2019, 14:11 by Krill.)
Joey:
 With perfect avoid growth trick to reach size 4 eot33 for a double whip.
That looks pretty good... when does the settler come out?
I suppose the question about how fast to get the second worker really depends on what our second city prospects look like. Also, whether there's BFC copper... the lack of BFC rivers makes me very suspicious about that possibility. We're getting BW very early and so we'd definitely want to work that tile if it exists.
Depends, the granary comes and we have 3 forests left. So I can easily get the settler eot34 with a couple chop and double whip, and then there is plenty of overflow and move on from there.
It is a lot more natural than any of the other run through a, and I reckon there is a lot that can be tightened up in it.
Brief run through of the worker whip>granary. It's the same as the link above to begin with, but after dumping the hammers into the worker at size 1, regrow straight to size 3, and use worker1 to chop the western forest, whip worker2 T28, and then road the northern forest with worker 1 on T28. The second worker joins it to double chop, sync up the workers and still gets the granary eot30, and avoid growth T31, growth@3 eot32, growth@4 eot33. We can then get the workers to double chop, finish T34 for a double whip T35 for the settler.
This leaves 1 forest remaining and overflows about 12 hammers, and the workers are almost perfectly positioned. We are carrying 2 whip unhappy (one of which disappears eot37). There is one really big advantage to this path that no other path can match for us: it allows us to build a scout instead of a warrior, and we will still get a further warrior out before the settler. We do not have to commit to this decision until after we move scouts on T9 either. There is also one cost to this: It only works with a FIN leader. I am not saying we are definitely going to do this, but I am comfortable now saying that I think we are going to struggle to find something better than the whip worker1 plan, and we either rush out a settler if we have a great second city site, or we can slow play, hold at the capital, get the granary and then push outw two settlers and send both workers out whilst the capita follows up with worker whips.
Looking through leaders, because I get the feeling Pacal is going to cause a deluge of FIN leaders falling.
Joey, I think we are somewhat forced to look at FIN leaders first due to England. It's hard to see past a building that costs 100 base hammers max, gives +50% gold, and +15% beakers and doesn't require anything else (especially when the counterpoint is a library at around 67-70 hammers for +25% beakers). I still think Hannibal is a good choice to give us the option to burn the happiness into horizontal growth, and getting cottages off the ground on in other cities, and opening up a Writing push for border pops through ~50 hammer libraries, but I'd agree with your point that we also want CHM. Hannibal is my #1 pick, but we probably have to look at the FIN only and CHM only if Hannibal falls. For Fin leaders, the options that stand out are Ragnar and Darius, with Mansa and Huayna as possible outliers. Ragnar has a weakness in that we are not going to be able to whip the capital particularly hard (unless there is significant happy in the fog), and there is a good chance that we end up having to suck worker turns up at the capital to improve it. Which is counter productive when FIN/AGG has the lowest early game horizontal expansion costs. Upside is AGG and easy barracks border pops though? I reckon the value of AGG will depend on what our neighbours pick, but I also see Ragnar falling to TBW if he picked Rome right after us (AGG Praets, and FIN Forums? It works) Darius is an oddball, but here me out on this: I think he is actually one of the quickest opening leaders for us: Sailing after Pottery, whip overflow into the 30 hammer lighthouse, work the FIN coast and invest no worker turns into the capital. Put everything into cities 2-4 and push expansion, with the certainty we can manage tech in the ancient era with no difficulty, and be a late game economic monster. We could even focus on reaching straight to CoL through Priesthood (cost is we need one extra GS if we do have to rush an Astro bulb, which I know you will scoff at as a cost). Darius would push me quite hard towards an early granary plan though, but, and it's a big but, if there is a fantastic second city location, he can't be any slower than Hannibal in a plan that uses that. Darius is a hedge choice. Mansa is, well, Mansa. We give up all our flexibility at the start for the late game flexibility and aim to make a series of massive plays around Redcoats, and we have to be careful for the rest of the game. It's a pretty iffy but need to keep it in mind to compare to other...unsavoury choices. Huayna is an MC rush contender, we have a capital that can build Collosus even if it can't chop it. We can finish Pottery eot30, after that theoretically we only want Hunting and then it's onto MC if we really, really want to try for this. Can it work? No reason why not, we have a coastal capital, and obvious coastal cities north, south and land over the bay. Very cheap stock excahnges and a bit of help with universities does mean that if we can find any time at the start of the Ren era we can cram down the next level of infrastrucutre and push straight to Rifles, and if it works, we can find someone stuck between trying to repair an economy and Redcoats. And that's it for the FIN leaders, but that is still 5 FIN leaders total we can somewhat make work. For CHM leaders, the options that I like the look of are Boudicca, De Gaulle. The corresponding CHM leaders to Mansa and Darius are Brennus and Napoleon feel too flimsy IMO. Boudicca is Boudicca. Just focus on building an functioning economy and everything else will fall into place. Don't worry about anything military, just focus on on having enough units and not fucking up (and not getting chariot rushed on T30 like in PB37). We essentially give up on the importance of Stock Exchanges but we have looser boundaries on growth, and the Redcoat will be...possibly game ending if we are in a good position at that time of the game. We will need to grab a religion and get into OR though, we are going to need OR to get buildings down fast enough, if we don't, we are quite likely to miss windows of opportunity. In a 16 player game there is a decent chance this happens. De Gaulle is the weird hybrid between Huayna (Collosus rush strategy and cheapish Stock Exchanges) and Hannibal (we actually have happy) but we don't have FIN commerce boost. But there is very little late game to De Gaulle, he is probably going to have to use Emancipation (as is Boudicca, but Boudicca doesn't care because she doesn't need Vassalage and still has good units, De Gaulle lacks that). OTOH, both are CHM, so can afford to lose Vassalage and will still have well promoted boats. I think we can make any of these 7 leaders work. Any of them you like the look of? |
|
Are you, in fact, a pregnant lady who lives in the apartment next door to Superdeath's parents? - Commodore |
