RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Shoot the Moon]

Agreed. I also think he's going to some effort to come up with interesting material for his updates for the benefit of the lurkers, hence the editorializing. Some turns just aren't that eventful so adding some opinion on the actions of the other teams is a good way to add more content to his posts on the slow turns. When he calls people out for what he perceives as shady diplomacy, I don't detect any personal condemnation, I think he's just being realistic about who his friends are and aren't in the context of this game.

I agree. He certainly plays up most stuff for the benefit of the lurkers. I certainly have no objections to it, as it certainly makes for more interesting lurking.

And to be fair to Sulla, he certainly has a reason to dislike Nakor. The way he was deceived earlier was pretty cold-hearted, and I can't really say I blame Sulla for being peeved at him.

[antisocialmunky]

It's all perspective eh? To be fair to Sulla, the fact that he posts so much more than anyone else, and in more depth and frankness, does set him up to seem hypocritical more than others on the forum. I'd be amazed if anyone could post as Sulla does and not at some point come across as hypocritical.

And in regards to tech trading: if tech trading were to be on, there would also be a much greater incentive for other teams to work with Sulla too. You don't think tech trading wouldn't tie Korea and Mali to India even more? I would reckon that if tech trading was on, Slaze would also have been much more interested in helping India back during the dogpile, and India help Inca during their wars.

Yeah I guess that is part of it if you are annoyed by some of the the hypocrisy. I guess in part this is because we expect more out of the almighty Sullla due to his SP omnicience which isn't all that good in MP. Afterall the AI decision making is easy to figure out while people... well people do odd things for suboptimal reasons that are hard to figure out to put it simply.

I dunno. I don't see him being too hypocritical to be honest. I think its just the lack of awareness on his part of the limits of his own perception rather than real hypocrisy. The main thing annoys me is that he treats people like AIs and villifies their foolishness just like the AIs in his reports. And we enjoy it when he acts more clever than the AIs in his reports but the charm just doesn't carry over when he harshly critiques people. :-\

[Cort]

The main thing annoys me is that he treats people like AIs and villifies their foolishness just like the AIs in his reports. And we enjoy it when he acts more clever than the AIs in his reports but the charm just doesn't carry over when he harshly critiques people. :-\

Well said antisocialmunky, I think that's the best summation of what annoys people about Sullla's reporting style that I have seen.

[Serdoa]

I think that their idea about repaying Korea (giving them a little bit extra back) is how diplomacy works for them. If you are their true ally then Spulla will be fair and sometimes more then fair to you. But if they think you will always do what is best for you, no matter what your allys would need, they will only look what is best for them (like with Dantski).

But maybe that is a biased view, as I like how they act. In my opinion they are the only ones who treat others by their act, not by what they tell. I still cannot understand why Whosit gifts cities to Nakor when Nakor did basically nothing to help him with the war against Korea. Yes, probably there would have been another world war if they would have attacked Korea directly - but on the other hand, what is a mutual pact good for if you do nothing when your ally is in need of your help?

[Selrahc]

I still cannot understand why Whosit gifts cities to Nakor when Nakor did basically nothing to help him with the war against Korea.

Nakor did help a good deal. He didn't swap his empire over to war mode and open up an unrestricted war with Korea, but he did help. He moved a large chunk of his forces over to the border, meaning that Korea had to keep back a large garrison force. Then when Whosits line eventually crumbled he launched an offensive to retake Nar Shadaa for Whosit, and raze Cheju, but they were faced with a superior force at Nar Shadaa and Whosit folded before they could attack Cheju. Aside from that they acted as economic backer for Whosits crippled economy, gifting him the gold needed to limp his way up to Engineering.

Could they have done more? Definitely. But I think its unfair to say they didn't try and keep up their end of the bargain.

[sunrise089]

Could they have done more? Definitely. But I think its unfair to say they didn't try and keep up their end of the bargain.

I thought they actually had a quote that was something like "lets try to not do much to keep up our end of the bargain." I may be remembering someone's take on things though, and not an actual admission from the team.

[Adlain]

i wonder what whosit will say to Nakor/ DMOC when he gets to read their thread soon, cause i would imagine there may be afew choice words thrown in their direction.

[Darkmantle]

Nakor did help a good deal. He didn't swap his empire over to war mode and open up an unrestricted war with Korea, but he did help. He moved a large chunk of his forces over to the border, meaning that Korea had to keep back a large garrison force. Then when Whosits line eventually crumbled he launched an offensive to retake Nar Shadaa for Whosit, and raze Cheju, but they were faced with a superior force at Nar Shadaa and Whosit folded before they could attack Cheju. Aside from that they acted as economic backer for Whosits crippled economy, gifting him the gold needed to limp his way up to Engineering.

Could they have done more? Definitely. But I think its unfair to say they didn't try and keep up their end of the bargain.

They entered into a secret pact to limit the conflict to a land war and then only when Whoisit actually looked like he might lose they cobbled together some forces. They could have done all kinds of things, like kept sea open so Korea would have to hold ships back to protect their fishing nets and other stuff. Instead they basically negotiated so they never did anything with their MDP. I don't think they are snakes like Sulla does, but they play just as down and dirty as anyone in this game.

[Profane]

If I recall, the purpose of the so-called 'MDP' was to actually protect HRE (and annoy India & Mali), and not Rome.

In my opinion, HRE didn't really help Whosit much partly because they overestimated Whosit's ability to defend successfully. That, I think was their biggest mistake that they realised far too late.

I think they shoud've been more transparent about things, and Whosit failed to show Nakor/DMOC just how desperate the situation was for Rome (Perhaps Whosit did did not realise it at the time, though).

As for Sullla's behaviour, I can't say i'm upset it; I think his quirk that he treats other people as if they're AIs to be part of his charm. I get the feeling he's deliberately doing this for us lurkers.

Regardless, I think we probably should leave it to the other players judge once the game is over, as they are the true 'victims' of Sullla's comments.

Maybe in future games, players should state 'do as you please', or 'please don't be too harsh' in the planning thread before the game starts. But again, the other players' opinions on this post-game would need to be seen - for all we may know, they may not actually mind (I somewhat doubt that, though)...

[Shoot the Moon]

I think it's also fair to point out that while they had a MDP, the MDP (at least when they were negotiating it) was mostly intended to act as a deterrent. I'd say Whosit should be the ultimate judge of HRE's actions during the war. Obviously, some of that will have to wait until he can read their thread, but the gifting cities may be an indicator that he didn't really expect HRE to declare war and really wanted the MDP as a deterrent more than a binding agreement.