[SPOILERS] naufragar and Rusten get nickel-and-dimed

[Rusten]

It did catch my eye that it already has 3 unhappiness from whipping. I wasn't overly concerned, but I am now! What do you mean waiting to whip and happy cycles? If won't lose happiness any faster if you whip sooner than later if the city already has whip anger. You just get the 1 tick per turn regardless of 1 or 5 whip anger. Maybe (hopefully ) I'm just misunderstanding your post.

Do we even have any remaining citizens to run the engineer or are they all on strike? 

[naufragar]

You just get the 1 tick per turn regardless of 1 or 5 whip anger. Maybe (hopefully ) I'm just misunderstanding your post.

Yeah, I'm just saying that the sooner we whip, the sooner that 10 turn clock starts.

Do we even have any remaining citizens to run the engineer or are they all on strike? 

Um. So. I didn't want to tell you, but I've got a tiny worry that after we finish the forge, we are at two pop working the cow and an engineer. I don't think this happens; I think we're at size three the turn we finish the forge, but yeah. Just, uh, wanted to mention the possibility.

[Rusten]

Yeah, I'm just saying that the sooner we whip, the sooner that 10 turn clock starts.

But that's my point, it doesn't start any sooner if the city already has whip anger. Any consecutive whips after the first won't start ticking until the first wears off. The whip you did this turn won't start ticking for another 16 turns (if I remember the pop-up correctly).

R.I.P. Pajarocu.

[naufragar]

Yeah, I'm just saying that the sooner we whip, the sooner that 10 turn clock starts.

But that's my point, it doesn't start any sooner if the city already has whip anger. Any consecutive whips after the first won't start ticking until the first wears off. The whip you did this turn won't start ticking for another 16 turns (if I remember the pop-up correctly).

R.I.P. Pajarocu.

So if a city has 5t whip anger, and I whip, it gets 15t. If I waited a turn (4t on clock) and I whip, it gets 14t............................................................

I'm gonna hide my face from this Civilization forum for a while......

[Rusten]

Yup, it makes no difference if you whip the 1st or 2nd turn for whip unhappiness as there's already a timer going.

[Rusten]

In all seriousness before you go hiding in a corner we can work around this. There's still time to let things cool down before machinery. I'm OK with size 2 working cows+engineer if that's what we're stuck with. At least you found out before you drafted a city 10 times and really shafted it (yes, same mechanic there!). Try to make sure we can run 2 tiles when we finish the forge next time you log in. The furs is going to be even more important than I imagined, good thing we pushed for that barracks before granary in New Viron.

If the city grows to 3 we can put it on a settler while running cow+engineer. And at least I got a good laugh out of this.

[naufragar]

If the city grows to 3 we can put it on a settler while running cow+engineer. And at least I got a good laugh out of this.

Years! I've been playing Civilization 4 for years.






The city under discussion. There are two workers on separate forests. Neither has started chopping. Now that I'm paying attention, I've royally f'ed this city. It's so much worse than I thought.

Not sure how best to present this information because I've just scribbled down notes by hand. Values are what would be shown in boxes if moused over on that turn. Here's draft one. Basically, we throw in a turn working the bare plains hill forest to delay growth. (This plan is bad. Ignore this one. Proceed to draft two.)

Turn 65 (Current): 16/22f  42/35h  4/4 to
66:                     20/22f  24/120h  5/4 (Furs connected)
67:                     13/24f  27/120h  5/5 (Work floodplains)  
68:                     18/24f  70/120h  5/5  (Chops come in)
69:                     23/24f  73/120h  6/5  (Whip unhappy wears off)
70:                     16/26f  76/120h  6/6  (Work forest plains hill for a turn)
71:                     19/26f  102/120h  6/6  (Chop comes in, so can't actually whip this turn. Stop working (now bare) hill. Work grass cottage.)
72:                     24/24f  135/120h  6/6  (WHIP. Avoid growth. Weep and curse.)

The insurmountable problem is this: the city can have the happiness for three citizens, but to complete the forge with a 1 pop whip, it loses that happy. I've really fucked this city.

There's another version of this plan that has us not chop the plains hill forest, and two pop whips the forge. (Workers go off to who knows where.) Still doesn't solve the happiness problem but might be better because the whip timing is the same and it preserves a forest. That plan's simple. Work food tiles. Don't chop plains forest. Whip forge at 82/120. This plan's might also be better because we lose three hammers to forge overflow rather than the four in the other plan.  


Sorry. I'm not being clear. The short version is, although I thought the cow+engineer thing was a joke, apparently it's very much not. We need to grow to size 4 and two pop whip. This means we're stuck at size two until turn 78.  It's a fiasco.

[Krill]

So...did you post your plan about how you were going to build the forge anywhere before this whip counter malarkey came up?

[naufragar]

So...did you post your plan about how you were going to build the forge anywhere before this whip counter malarkey came up?

"It's Civ4. I'll just chop a little and whip a little."

Puzzle three: The more important puzzle. How do I build Pajarocu's forge? I decided against bringing the northern workers down. It doesn't really save us much time, especially compared to losing time on all the improvements they need to build. The worker down there plus the worker about to be born move west to chop those two forests and then move to the plains hill and chop that forest (60h). When the worker completes, it dumps 14h overflow into a 12/35 axe. I think I turn around and whip this axe. (Axe completes at 59/35.) This dumps 24h into the forge. 24h + 60h = 84. Easy two pop whip to finish. This whips Pajarocu very hard, and it doesn't have great food tiles, but it does have a granary.

"Happiness? Is that a mechanic?"

   


Edit: If you're suggesting I should be more transparent about my micro, probably. But the trouble wasn't getting the hammers or something. It was me completely fucking forgetting that happiness is a thing in these games.

[Rusten]

How soon do we get IW if we go that before writing? Earlier gems might help out Pajarocu. That's +2 with the forge. Our science should still be OK for a few more turns.

And Krill is probably trying to put this on me for not stopping you sooner.

edit: Working furs at size 4 while getting a settler in New Viron is a possiblity to speed it up too, although I don't like not having whip anger running. Due to a certain mechanic *wink* any turn we're not having whip anger in the early game is essentially wasted production. No timer there right now.