[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England

[GermanJoey]

On phone now, but IIRC worker goes chop 1W, farrm wheat (done T25), move 2NW, chop.

Another idea: don't whip the granary ASAP,, but instead let the city grow to 4, then whip. Goal would be pool the overflow into the settler.

[GermanJoey]

On phone now, but IIRC worker goes chop 1W, farrm wheat (done T25), move 2NW, chop.

Another idea: don't whip the granary ASAP, but instead let the city grow to 4, then whip. Goal would be pool the overflow into the settler.

It's interesting... the net result of this is that the city doesn't need to whip the settler complete on T47, but it would want to whip the WB the next turn anyways so I'm not sure how much it matters? Depends on how much happycap presses us in the capital, I guess.



Thinking back on it, I think for this sim I accidentally swapped where my workers ended up (the one at the second city was 1T "ahead" of where I expected, while the one at the capital was 1T "behind")... that would actually end up making a difference here, so maybe I should go back and check that.

[Krill]

We need to be a little careful with the grass hill forest at the capital. If we settle the third city on the plains hill .I think we want to save that forest for a granary chop. With a well placed mine we should be able to get that settler out by eot46, and granary chopped around t51.

[Krill]

Turn 12

We have a scouting option this turn:




The scout is at 89hp, and 2XP. It has 99.7% odds of victory without taking the promotion on flatland, and if it wins against the lion it gains 1XP no mater where we leave it. However, win that, and if there is another barb in the fog, then we can get to W2. So the question I have: is it worth moving onto the plains hill forest to take the hit and possibly heal if needed, or do we risk the ever so slightly worse odds of remaining on the flatland sheep? Because if there is a second barb to the north then the scout could die if there were a bad roll against the first barb. There is also the risk that the lion might balk at the odds if the scout is on the forest hill and mess up the scout moves for a while.

I'm leaning towards moving onto the sheep myself, but I don't think it's a no brainer decision.





Plan to revolt to Slavery T15 (it gives us an extra day to consider what we want to do, functionally no different to a revolt T14).





Turn slower than OH and Hitru to size 2, no one else has joined us, 2MN is going for BW and still no one has founded a religion. Rusten could be going for a religion though, if so he is a lock for whichever one he chose.

[Krill]

I think we only get commerce on the turn we connect the routes if we put a plant a city that turn. (i.e. we only get that turn's worth if the road is finished before the city is planted)

We can have that done, but then it's a tradeoff between getting that farm built 1SE of the capital vs getting the road down before the city is planted. IMHO, I think the farm is better, as that second city doesn't hit size 2 (at which point, it will work the cows) until T47 even if it steal's the capital's wheat.

The cows are more important than all of this. It's our only 6 yield tile. It might be a 3 food piece of shit from a growth perspective, but the cow gives us the granary, and keeps the wheat with the capital for 6 turns, which overrides the value from the grass farm (we do want that tile farmed, but if we are running minimum workers in this scenario, I'm not sure when that farm needs to happen).

I agree that it's important, but wouldn't we want t get that city up to size 2 first? Especially if copper is in its BFC. I believe that will maximize the city's yield.

The food situation is so hilariously bad, and it's this that really drives the point home in my opinion.

If we steal the wheat from the capital, city 2 grows after 6 turns with 2 food overflow, and 12 hammers. If we steal the wheat for a single turn, and then work the improved cow, city 2 grows in 7 turns, but has zero food overflow but 26 hammers. If we consider that growing one turn sooner gives us a single turn of working an additional tile, and that tile is an improved plains cow...then wheat until size 2 has 7 food in the box, and 17 hammer saved.

But the granary is what changes this: cow first completes the granary with the half full food box at size 2, whereas wheat first finishes the granary at size 3, or as it is about to grow to size 3. So it turns out that by improving the cow quickly we gain half a food box worth of food on growth to size 3 and it's just quicker. Even if there is copper at city 2, using the cow to grow to size 2 (other than the first turn it is settled where it uses the wheat for 4 food) costs us only a single turn of working an improved copper tile, but gives us 5+ turns of keeping the wheat worked at the capital (and there are no tiles we could improve at the capital that would match working the 5 yield wheat tile)

Therefore total yield is higher by improving the 6 yield tile at city 2 quickly, even though it is a shitty 3 food tile. The hammers into a granary pay back.

[Krill]

i fucking hate imgur.

And yet it is still the best image host available short of a paid option.

I'm going through your micro myself now, and want to ensure I've got it right:

Turn 20: worker 1 chop forest. Production changed to a worker.

Turn 21: production changed back to a scout, worker 1 farms wheat.

Turn 22: Capital grow@2 eot




Turn 24: swap from unimproved rice onto grass forest hill. Complete scout eot, overflow 3 hammers (for comparison, if wheat farm prioritized over chop, scout completes eot23 but gets stuck on a forest tile, so the scouting achieved is no different).





Turn 25: Worker 1 finishes wheat farm. Build worker (I note this is necessary to allow granary whip). Scout wanders off





Turn 26: Worker 1 moves NE - NE. Change production to warrior.

Turn 27 (not pictured): change production to worker, worker 1 chops. eot capital grows@3.




Turn 28: complete worker2 eot.




Turn 29: Worker1 completes chop. Change production to granary. Worker2 moves S.





Turn 30: This is why I lose track of what occurs with the workers. Worker 2 moves SW to improve the rice, worker1 seems to follow??





Turn 31: I note that this means we would only save the 7 food in the granary on growth to size 3.

Turn 32 (not pictured): workers complete rice farm..





Turn 33: Workers1 and 2 are free to move and farm. Workers 1 and two move onto grass hill. Complete warrior end of turn. 13 food in the box.

I'll stop here to make a note: the micro I have for the worker 2 whip on T29, and improving the wheat before the second chop completes grows end of turn 33 to size 4, and completes a warrior eot33 as well. I think at this point this micro shown here is already behind, but it is up the improved rice, but down a road on the plains hill and forest chop.





Turn 34: Worker1 mine, worker 2 moves E, build warrior2. Capital grows@4 eot.





Turn 35: work grass forest. Worker2 chop

Turn 36 (not shown): Nothing special.





Turn 37: Worker1 complete mine, worker2 complete chop, change production to settler, work improved tiles.

Turn 38 (not shown): Capital grow@6 eot. Worker 2 farm (I know this is wrong as plains cow is more important), worker 1 moves NW road. Warrior2 complete eot, OF 4 hammers.





Triple whip settler (35/100). Overflow 17 hammers from whip

The rest is immaterial. I'll run through the other option in a bit.

[Krill]

Joey (and lurkers): Can you see the imgur gallery for the worker2 whip micro here? Or is it broken again?

[AutomatedTeller]

Joey (and lurkers): Can you see the imgur gallery for the worker2 whip micro here? Or is it broken again?

Yes, I can see it when I click on the link.

[Krill]

Cheers. I'm not going to post everything here as a duplicate then, unless someone asks me to.

Going to mull over the scout move. Nothing else needs rushing today. Copper location revealed T14.

[GermanJoey]

I never did a triple settler whip, but a double whip from 5->3. Also, it looks like my sim is up +4 food on T40 and an improvement (the grass river mine), plus has more hammers binned in the settler T41.

Regarding the plains cow: you get it hooked a few turns earlier than I do, but then your workers are out in neverland with nothing to do. Further, it is more than 1 turn slower; it is 1 turn slower in getting the granary installed, and that's super important considering how fucked we are for food! Stealing the wheat from the capital was more about getting that city up to size 3 faster, as that will enable a faster granary whip.

Regarding the clams city: I think that settling on the PH 1N of the clams is a huge mistake. As you say, we are fucked for food. Our capital isn't great and our second city is filler quality. We can't afford to have our third city be filler-quality as well! A city 1N of the clams claims only 1 good new tile and 1 forest, and we can't really even afford it to steal the capital's rice, much less the wheat. Settling 1SW of the rice will still give the clam first-ring, as well as 2 additional forests, 2 3/0/3 lake tiles (with a granary), three wet grasslands to farm, and a 7/0/3 Fish tile, second ring. This city will be able to triple-whip settlers all the livelong day with fairly minimal investment. Settling 1SW of the clam also opens up a farmable grassland tile (once the forest is chopped) 1NE of the fish, which, as pathetic as it is to say, will be actually be really important for the development of our shitty second city.