[SPOILERS]PB46: (In Search of) Fine Foreign Dining, by Hannibal of England

[Krill]

This is going to be a very long turn.

Gav declared on BeardBeard and is in the process of taking everything, and I suspect OH/Hitru are going to declare this turn due to OH logging in but not doing anything.

Me? I'm reconsidering the intention to rush Banking. I might need to make a detour...

[Krill]

Question for lurkers regarding overflow mechanics:

If I build a scout in a city that makes 32 base hpt, has a forge, and 6 base hammers overflow, what is the overflow cap? I know it is either the cost of the item built OR the cities production, but does that mean it is 32 adjusted hammers, which then gets reduced to 25 base hammers through rounding? Or is my understanding wrong?

It's relevant due to change of plans at Seahouses and change of tech path.

[naufragar]

If I understand TBS correctly here (and I assume he's always right), then your understanding is correct.

[Krill]

Hmmm.

This thread seems to state that I'll have 25 base hammers overflow in that scenario.

That agrees with your post Nauf, so thank you for posting that.

I think I can get HE eot140 in Seahouses. I don't think I can wait until T150 to start building units, and I need Construction to build Xbows, and HBR to build WE. HE is only 2 techs (at around 130% of max slider) further down that road...I need to look more closely at what I'm trying to do...

[Krill]

Turn 134 - Oh shit

Elkad has pissed me off. I don't know if he has a single friend left in the game. My secondary aim in this game is to make sure he suffers. I reckon I'm not alone in that.







OH/Hitru have extorted their neighbours, (well, I'm assuming he extorted Pindicator, given his war declaration on GKC). So any gold given to Elkad, after him reneging on those deals, has been passed to OH/Hitru. That's behaviour that is held against you in future games, because he is untrustworthy. I feel comfortable making this statement public, because the loan offers were given on an implicit agreement it's to fight with, not danegeld.

Me, I'm waiting until T139 and then I'm cancelling all deals except OB.

But this means that TBW is going to be the target of an invasion (and I logged in at the end of the turn to confirm that war weas declared). I don't need to say how infuriating this is, but that's just me venting.





I sent this to Elkad. I have no idea how he interprets it, but frankly I'm past caring for him.





This got sent to TBW. I'm going to offer him the iron and horse as a gift, but I'm trying to make him realise he is about to be attacked and he lacks any good military unit except HA and preats. I can't recall if he has Construction (don't think he does, I think he went CoL>Calendar>Monarchy for some reason).





I reoffered OB to BeardBeard, not sure if he considers circumstances to have changed since Gav invaded him.





GKC accepted OB. Good job really. Also, he expanded really poorly. I could drop the chariot off and get a bit more vision, but I think I ought to immediately reload it so GKC doesn't see me scouting his lands (I don't want him scouting mine, so I might have an opportunity to cancel the OB if I can get the galley through quickly enough.





Nothing interesting up here just yet.





How to build HE:

eot134, scout 47/15, overflow 25 base hammers. Foodbox 21/44. Research Construction.
eot135, 32+25 base hpt, colloseum 128/80, overflow 21 base hammers. Foodbox 20/44. Research HBR.
eot136, 33+21 base hpt, stables 67/60, overflow 5 base hammers. Foodbox 21/44. Research Aesthetics.
eot137, 33+5 base hpt, chariot [8XP] 47/30, overflow 13 base hammers. Foodbox 22/44. Research Literature (~300 gold remaining?)
eot138, 35+13 base hpt, HE 84/200. Foodbox 20/44. Promote chariot to F2/Sentry ti unlock HE.
eot139, 35 base hpt, HE 145/200. Foodbox 18/44.
eot140, 33 base hpt, HE 202/200. Foodbox 19/44.





Look, I could probably write another 5000 words about the different routes I can handle this situation, considering the different tech paths, and the effects it would have on other players.

But fuck that. This is a fight to kick OH/Hitru off "my" continent (and they don't understand this! Their scouting is deficient in this regard), and to hell with the consequences. Rusten just took a step forward to winning this game.

Is this the correct move? Well, I've been caught at a bad time, I either want to trigger the GA right now and finish up in Merc, or I want to delay even more (slot in Construction/HBR/Aesthetics/Lit) and still get into Merc on the first turn of the GA. But I'm out of sync with OH/Hitru: if I had an army, I could look to an invasion of GKC, or I could counter invade TBW, or I could even ust try to shore up his defence. But I don't, so I'm having to react to their moves.

My problem is that I will never be able to pose a solid defence if OH/Hitru have a good holding on the continent, and I can't see a way to persue a space victory through that obstacle. I acknowledge that this is the same logic Courva had against my holding Mandrake Grove in PB37: to some it might seem hypocritical or short sighted. It's actually not, because right now that is only half of my concern. The other half is that TBW collapses and without proper precautions OH/Hitru just plough straight into Scarrow and Southease and I get cities razed. I need to play defence, I've already been planning an assault onto TBWs cities which work regardless of who holds them, and the defensive stack of WE/cats/Xbows pushes straight up an isthmus held by knights rather easily (and if OH/Hitru holds it, it would be at the end of a stupidly long supply line). So I need to build a defensive army that I can convert into an attacking force, and this slots in along the Astro bulb plan.

But wait, there is more!

The obvious play is galleons up either flank. The obvious defense is privateers from OH/Hitru, and they have a tech lead so Paper is looking much closer for them than me.

My counter play to that is the Chemistry beeline, but this has serious consequences for both of us: Rusten can make a run at Liberalism, Taj and Constitution for Emancipation and Rep and just blow everyone out of the water afterwards.

I already had a plan to bulb Chemistry, but that has to be tweaked now: I have Construction, so I would bulb Engineering rather than Gunpowder. This isn't a downside, I actually need everything Engineering gives me, especially the road movement. My (new) problem is that I was unwilling to find somewhere to push out teh 500 point GS, but I really, really need to revisit this: With an earlier marble and Literature, could I force down NE in WT, and rely on Owlthorpe to spam the missionaries I need? With a delay in starting the golden age, can I abuse Kettleness to get the next great person? These all depend on how fast TBW dies, and how quickly I can build an army.

And if you look at this list and question why I'm building forges? I can't build anything else this turn. Westminster goes onto units after the barracks. WT needs the forge for NE or missionary spam, or I need to swap the great people plan around. Owlthorpe needs the forge for missionary spam (and this makes more sense than another crappy city with a barracks putting 15 hammers into military).

Scarrow can swap over to am Xbow next turn. Aldeburgh was intended for boats, but after Moai will reach 28 base hpt: forge pays back quickly and I might need the happiness from WW in the near future. Huxter and Catfish are building longbows whilst growing, but these are needed to cover the island cities (I have 2 archers and an axe covering 6 cities on 3 land masses). Seahoues I've explained (and it will be 3 Xbows then a knight on rotation after HE).

Timble and Lucker are actually decent catapult cities, in fact so much so that with a planned Theocracy revolt barracks probably aren't a wise investment. Sneatonthorpe is about to reach 28hpt and build it's forge, but then needs a barracks and walls (it's a single turn build but not risking it). Oakenclough is slow building a longbow but after that just builds another one at 3hpt. Everything else on the list is trying to get granary/lighthouse down, or is growing after they've been completed.

What can I change here? The only thing I can really cut out is the barracks build at Westminster, everything else is about to swap onto military anyway, or grow pop for me to whip later.

I just have to hope that TBW doesn't implode.





Running 100% science now because I might need to run the EP slider against OH/Hitru in the near future. I can't stop them getting tech visibility on me though.







So annoying that just at teh demographics get good the whole game goes to shit. Not like I could have sped this up much.




That score depression = knights, that much is obvious.








I'm fairly sure I'm solidly in the #3 position now, looking at these graphs.





This somewhat confirms it IMO.

















So annoying that just at the demographics get good the whole game goes to shit. Not like I could have sped this up much.

[Krill]

Fwiw I wrote a bit more but it was mostly me bitching. You get the redacted report whilst I try to figure out where I can get the 500 point GS quickly.

[Juri]

TBW is pretty bad at worker micro

How do you know this?

[Krill]

By watching his workers?

[Krill]

Turn 135

Almost full turn report today. Needed to amend the great people plan due to the delay in triggering the GA from T142 to...probably T146 or so.





BeardBeard rejected the OB request, and then lost two more cities to Gav. Probably going to be annihilated. I'll float the work boat onwards but if I hit a dead end I will need to look at teh distance to the galley: might want to just return and declare on BeardBeard if he looks like he is going to die quickly.





Fourth pick Aztecs...why not settle a quick second city 2 East of the fish and drop Hinduism there on the turn of founding? That has to be second or third city.

Galley will be out of culture next turn but that doesn't mean that there is not more culture further on.





Need to check if there is a coastal path into SD culture, or if I have to wander the galley down south and approach via the peak. I will probably have to abandon Gilbert to remain as a random sentry in 2MNs land.





I need a worker up here to get that last mine down.

After barracks, straight units. I can still get the 300 point GS here, but with the delay I don't need to run two scientists so I'll take the hammers. Could grow the city but lack tiles to work after growth and Owlthorpe needs the food more so stick to size 13.

Probably ought to get a few cats out of here until I have a 5-6, as Seahouses will easily build Xbows and knights but I'll struggle to get even a small stack together from other cities.

Once the GS is built, get the last mine down, then this is an easy 30hpt, but right now I'm sucking up poor rounding.





Next turn pick up a plains workshop and then time growth to size 14: I'm going to try and push out as many hammers into NE as possible because WT is the backup city for the 600 point GS. Combined with getting out a pair of missionaries (Owlthorpe and Aldeburgh with a possible third for Westminster) it should be able to get the hammers needed in the GA for the NE as it can hit 32 base hpt (so 5 turn NE but with accumulated hammers should be quicker). Then grab the grocer if needed, and that's 5 slots for merchants and engineer for 30 gpp/t.

Don't think I could fit this in without the early LIterature.





Forge completes eot139, but unless I get a lucky Toaism spread then I can't start on a monastary and I'll instead build a catapult or crossbow.





I'll try and cram the forge in at some point, but the SE takes precedence here. Xbows until that day comes though...I will have one worker cottaging the last grassland tile, and then coming back to the plains tiles. Might hit size 13 and half way to 14 by start of the GA, so I want as many plains tiles cottaged for that point.





Forge eot139 and growth@14 eot140 with a watermill completed T143. Marble is quarried on T138. I want to build boats but lack the tech, so...barracks and then probably just build HA so I have a few to use before they are obsoleted by knights.





Xbow then walls? I need to throw down Castles ASAP once Engineering is in, but I suppose with stone they can wait a short while.





Next turn the watermill is completed. Going to grow a bit taller but don't see beyond size 11 and then stagnating on all the land tiles. . Makes 24 base hpt in a GA, so I'm intending that Catfish will get a forge and then produce boats. This none of the islands can really contribute to dealing with OH/Hitru expcet by sending a navy through Elkad, so that's what I'm preparing for (and to defend from Rusten).





Xbow now, cat next. I think I can finish the farm next turn and swap offw the plains cottage.





Sticking with the "no barracks" plan, but considering plan to chop the forest into a forge (and work a cottage). Payback is so long though, except that if I do revolt into slavery Lucker is going to get whipping into the ground for catapults and Xbows via small two pop whips so it would actually pay back.





Obvious plan is obvious: barracks after forge, colosseum once Toaism is spread and units forever. I think not founding Saltergate was completely the right move at this point. Sneatonthorpe can 2 turn everything except knights but there is a good chance I'll just build a few swords here simply because they are strength 6 hitters and cheap.





Plan has changed here: growing a bit more because I'm going to have to run a food deficit at the end of the GA, if I am to squeeze out all 4 GS I might need. I can't know the precise numbers, because I don't know when I'm starting the GA, but I think I need size 11 and to run a food deficit of about -9fpt to squeeze out the 500 point here if that is necessary, but if I'm aiming for the 400 point GS here I can afford to grow to use an extra coastal tile in the GA.





Due to the delay, I can try to squeeze out a GP here. Foodbox is 23/28, I'm planning to get it to size 11, food box 42/42, gp box 12/x eot140. At that point Kettleness accululates 15gpp/t, and in a GA can generate 252 gpp from the 6 specs at stagnation, and then a further 42 gpp per each specialist over 7 turns starvation for a total of 378. Add in the 75 gpp made before triggering the GA, and the 12 on the last turn of the GA and I can get Kettleness to around 465 gpp, and within touching distance of the 500 point GS. Now it would have a low odds of a great artist, about 2%, but I'll take those odds: This GS would be earmarked for either a Chemistry bulb after teh GA, or as the first part of hte second GA.

I was planning to cottage the plains tiles, and pound out that forge in the GA, but I think the bulb might be more necessary to give me some control over how to react to Privateers appearing.








Both cities are building their own defenders, but in the GA will probably end up swapping to hammer tiles (Kelling will work plains cottages but Skinningrove needs to have the plains tile farmed for the wheat).








Going to have to give the hammer tiles to Backskaill in the GA just to get teh granary and lighthouse completed, and so PW is aiming to get the lighthouse down first (and so PW gets each production tile as it grows and Backaskaill sucks up saltwater) and grow in the GA in preparation for potential boat whips.

I'm going to need to transfer longbows from Huxter and Catfish down here. I can't build longbows, just lack the hammers.











Growing 10 pop eot, should go over 10% world pop? I mis HBR by about 3 beakers at 20% science, I'm running slightly higher so that it hides my GNP and tech choices (plus the potential need to run the EP lider as mentioned before).

Right now it's hold the line for TBW, and try to maintain what pop growth I can in preparation for the GA. I'm going to struggle, but I need to use teh GA to knock out SE in specific cities, not everywhere, and then stack up in the GA. Bulb what I need, prepare for any whips, and also to evaluate if I even need to run slavery after the GA (still think I do, but depending on what happens over the next 10 turns I might not, and I might have to change plans around drafting as a more food efficient method of building units from a quick second GA).

Too much is up in the air to know for certain what is going to happen. Bulbing Astro, revolting into Theocracy, Owlthorpe spreading religion, HE in Seahouses and NE in WT, these things I know, but I need to see what OH is invading with, is he limited by transport capacity?

[Krill]

Turn 136

Calamity has struck, and all plans go out the window. Two barb galleys have turned up and if it moves towards Kettleness I'll lose at least one work boat.







Christianity finally spread into a poor city. I've had to dump the two longbows onto the gems tile, and because of that they might be too slow to reach Rome. I will have two galleys on the fish tile though, so that I should be able to hold this workboat.





With BeardBeard fucking off, I'll reoffer OB to whomever subs for him and see what happens. I also lost hte trade route to SD for some reason, but I've offered wines to TBH for gems (he has one tile hooked, hooked the other this turn, I logged back in and confirmed that this has been accepted).





There is a city 4 tiles west of the scout. It might be a path through the island (look at how many stringy parts of the continent there are for Borsche and 2MN) and I can drop the chariot off on T137 to scout out the situation.





Looks like there is a short path to SD, in which case Gilbert will be abandoned as expected, but I'll be able to confirm next turn. I'll be able to leave Gilbert on the island and try to pick him up with a caravel in 20 turns or so.





The trireme in Sneatonthorpe will cover the net there, but I think the barb heads to Kettleness, in which case I'll need to replace that net ASAP and all the great people plans are fucked.