[Spoiler] Suboptimal's Next Attempt at Lurker Frustration

[suboptimal]

Turn 16

Settler is out. London drops in population but regains its amenity bonus to yields for the time being. No one else has had an empire score drop so if anyone’s got a settler out it’s been masked by their food yields.

There’s also lots of barbarian news. First, the warrior got attacked for 26 damage but none of the barbarian warrior’s friends have shown up yet. Second, that scout showed up in the jungle northwest of the slinger (which means I get another shot at it). Third, there’s a new barbarian camp in town – this one is located 2 tiles SW of the open grassland at the mouth of the Trent (2 tiles SW of the ‘E’ city location in last post’s pinmapping). Fourth (and last), there’s another, undamaged barbarian scout NW of the horses. That means there’s another camp somewhere in that direction since the scout from the southwestern camp wouldn’t be up here yet. Things are going to get busy in a jiffy.

Well, I take care of the easy bit first and shoot the scout with the slinger. Not enough to kill the scout but it’s redlined, which should be enough to force it to retreat. Settler joins the slinger on the bananas, they’ll move east next turn. London starts a warrior, 4 turns to go.

Up north the warrior moves back over open ground to the mouth of the Thames. This reveals a bit more around the area:




Both the forest and the jungle hill at fog’s edge to the east are coastal. I’m beginning to suspect that this is my “designated backline”. The barbarian warrior sighting to the north is actually a good thing. It means that the barbs know where my warrior is and should try to follow it. I’ll cross the river and defog down the likely coast, hopefully dragging the barbarians along.

There are a couple of implications here for settling. First, as it relates to the discussion around Site ‘D’ (on the elephants) it likely means there’s no need for a defensive position in this direction. Additionally, settling on the elephants or on the jungle hill to the NE eliminates any settlement on this corner of the land mass. Site ‘D needs to make a big move:




By the numbers, if I were to buy the 5tile on founding and then the elephants three turns later I could get the city up to 4 pop in 14 turns. In the first 30 (to compare with last post) that’d be 5 pop, 46.4/55, 179, 53.5, 48.1:culture (with GotS) and 28. I had put the Encampment to the south but I’d actually put it next to London’s RND to get that district a +1 adjacency bonus. The city would go granary → settler as Early Empire likely completes a couple of turns after the granary and the extra housing allows the growth to 5 pop in 30 turns and 6 pop in 32 turns if I really push food over production after the granary is built.

This also makes a better industrial district, provides another naval production port and, if the coast does continue southwards from ‘C’, likely opens up room for a city north of Armagh. It does reduce the city’s immediately available production as it takes the jungle hill out of the first ring (but moves the cattle first ring). Likewise, ‘F’ could still (would?) move northeast off the coast without issue.

The second implication of the coast over here is that it makes sites ‘B’ and ‘E’ the priority as that may define the front. We’ll know more in two turns once the warrior gets to the jungle hill.

[Alhambram]

I had a feeling that barb activity would be this, hence I recommened building warrior after settler. If sole warrior is able to deal with northern barb trouble, new warrior from London can deal with SW barb camp then.

I can live with new spot D, though I kinda still prefer between unforested tile between cow and elephant, but it would pick up Kilimanjaro tiles at 3rd ring comparded with your D spot which picks up high food yield at 2nd ring already.

[suboptimal]

It didn't occur to me that the open grassland spot still permits the settlement on the NE coast. However, I think the shift is still a better idea. The warrior should be able to defog in two turns once it's on the hill. The settler/slinger pair can move to the cattle on Turn 18 and then either found in the open on Turn 19 or cross the river and found on Turn 20. I do think it's important to keep enough room towards the coast to fit in a filler city - an early Medieval city there could chop in a RND, lighthouse and trader and be contributing to the empire immediately.

I took a quick look at the numbers. The open location, in terms of overall based yields over the first 30 turns, is reasonable: 4 pop, 31.5/44, 190 42 42.2 27 if I work London's PFH with the 3rd population. This is sort of midway between the jungle settlement to the NW and settling directly on the elephants. If I work the jungle hill the numbers don't move very far.

What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages comparing the grassland spot vs. the jungle to the northwest? Despite its initial gold investment on tile buys I think having the 5 tile and getting a rapid population boost is a good early edge, particularly once Pingala is recruited and established.

[suboptimal]

Just saw an update video posted at CivFanatics. Looks like they're going to be changing up some of the religious beliefs for GS in an upcoming update. The Work Ethic belief is getting changed to +1 per Holy Site adjacency. If I were playing Brazil I'd be drooling at that prospect right about now.

[Alhambram]

What do you see as the advantages/disadvantages comparing the grassland spot vs. the jungle to the northwest?  Despite its initial gold investment on tile buys I think having the 5 tile and getting a rapid population boost is a good early edge, particularly once Pingala is recruited and established.

Advantage of grassland is quicker access of at least 2 tiles and one more choppable rainforest unless you want use it for campus adjaceny. Settling one turn earlier.
Disadvantage of grassland is that it don't have access of Kilimanjaro tiles in 2nd ring.

Advantage of rainforest tile: access of Kilimanjaro tiles in 2nd ring. Can trade 13 tile of London from start if new city needs production right away. 3 of 6 farmable tiles in 2nd ring for Feudalism boost.
Disadvantage: needs some time to reach own production tiles, need to borrow from London or slow build things.

In sum short term rainforest is better due combo of buying Kilimanjaro tile and borrowed tile from London. Long term however grassland between cow and elephant offers stronger production output especially with presence of more rainforest hills in east.

[suboptimal]

Advantage of grassland is quicker access of at least 2 tiles and one more choppable rainforest unless you want use it for campus adjaceny. Settling one turn earlier.
Disadvantage of grassland is that it don't have access of Kilimanjaro tiles in 2nd ring.

Advantage of rainforest tile: access of Kilimanjaro tiles in 2nd ring. Can trade 13 tile of London from start if new city needs production right away. 3 of 6 farmable tiles in 2nd ring for Feudalism boost.
Disadvantage: needs some time to reach own production tiles, need to borrow from London or slow build things.

In sum short term rainforest is better due combo of buying Kilimanjaro tile and borrowed tile from London. Long term however grassland between cow and elephant offers stronger production output especially with presence of more rainforest hills in east.

You make a good point about short-term vs. long term benefits.  The initial 30-turn figures did borrow the PFH from London (actually, the city swaps that tile over and keeps it). 

In taking another look at how much room there is it's highly likely that we'll be able to get another city in even settling on the grassland.  I don't know that the grassland location provides for a good Campus location (though do we need to build a second one early?).  On the flip-side the rice tiles will likely be the first two cultural acquisitions (unless there's a resource in the fog) and we could buy in the 5 tile (and later even the 4 tile) once the northern rice is acquired.

[suboptimal]

[b]Turn 17[b]

I load the save and see that all of my pins are still there...heh. I remove them for the time being. I also noticed in my tracking spreadsheet that as of my last turn Woden had not completed any techs. He completed his first one this past turn. He’s also up to 12 era score. Wonder if he’s gunning for religion and a Monumentality Classical?

The redlined barbarian scout has run off to the west. The other scout that was out there has not reappeared, so it’s out there...somewhere. Slinger and settler move east. The warrior, well, he’s got a hoedown going on right now:




Excellent…it crosses the river to the southeast, revealing a jungle hill to the southeast of the rice. Next turn I’ll move up to the jungle hill on the coast to have a look around while the slinger/settler move to the cattle. Fog-gazing that hill tile it looks like there’s coast to the E and SE:




Compare the light spot on the SE edge with the coastal features at fog’s edge of the forest tile to the NE. Settlervision shows the tile as fresh water because of the river. Oh, I’ve also now confirmed that this is the backline region. How? Because the tooltips know all…




The only question now is whether the Tethys and Iapetus Oceans are connected. From what I’ve seen on GS maps in the past, they won’t be due to ice dams, but if they are it’d be a 1-tile channel. If that’s the case then there’s likely quite a bit more land to the north.

Everything military that gets built in London is going to head west. Question for the committee – the current build order at the capital is warrior (current) → builder → monument. If we do get God of the Open Sky as the pantheon I’m thinking of pushing the monument back quite a bit in the queue (or skipping it entirely) for some more military, both for barb busting and scouting. After the builder there’s enough production in the queue to get out a monument, a warrior, two slingers and a likely Campus before we need to build the settler for a T49 completion. If I skip the monument then we could get out another warrior and then finish the Campus and the settler a little earlier (by a couple of turns).

Given what I’ve seen on the map this turn and taking a bit more time looking at things I’ll be taking Alhambram’s suggestion and settling City #2 on the open grassland in two turns. I’m thinking going monument → settler there, working the elephants first and the jungle hill until the cows are pastured (around Turn 34). That would complete the monument around Turn 31 and the settler around Turn 46 (three turns before London). I don’t see an immediate need to get a builder out since the only thing it could really do would be to put down a camp and then a farm (which we wouldn’t use right away but would need for the eureka). Working the cows first slows down the monument and is marginally less gold and the slower growth doesn’t ultimately impact the city’s population curve. By the time the settler comes out I should be able to buy that 5 tile to the north.

[suboptimal]

Turn 18

Pottery is complete. Guess what else happened this turn? If you said “volcanic eruption” you win improved tile yields!




What’s funny is that 6 tiles gained yields, which should mean that everything around the volcano has different yields. However, only four tiles actually gained yields – the total yield increase was 6. Yield gains were 1(W), 1(NW), 11(NE), 11(E) plus elimination of the swamp. That’s going to make for some interesting decisions. I know I previously said the next two cities needed to be west but is a 61 or 62 tile valuable enough to put a city to the northeast first?

You can also see the current status of the barbarians. One ran away, one is pursuing. Warrior moves to the jungle hill and…




You can see a river delta in the fog southeast of the southern rice and the source is on the SW corner of the tile to the west. It also looks like the river dips south so that the tile between the rice and the one to its west is also fresh water. In fact, they are on the River Avon because the tooltip told me so. . There will be plenty of room down here for a coastal freshwater settlment. Nice. I’ll move southeast next turn. That’s expose the coast north of the river mouth along with a good bit of the land to the south.

Slinger and settler pair move to the cattle, city will found on the grassland next turn. I’ll likely move the slinger to the jungle hill east of the city on the following turn in order to bait the barbarian warrior over for a kill.

I select Writing as the next tech and will work that to eureka + 1 and then get Mining and the first half of Bronze Working out of the way.

[Alhambram]

Good to know that eastern land is a backline, need to push next settlers north or west.

I know that you are tempted by high yields of tiles north of Kilimanjaro, but for safety it is better to put city bit close and afterwards settle city one radius farther away.

And one of barb warrior that seemingly ran away, I think that he is beelining for London, after all scout did mark it. Barb slinger might appear soon at London too.

[suboptimal]

I think the decision about city placement for the next two settlers will be between 'A', 'B' and 'E'. I think that's going to depend on what the units coming out of London and heading west find, as well as the warrior/slinger to the east. I want to get a bit more recon done by the warrior but will use the slinger to start taking out the barbarian units.

London's warrior finishing next turn is heading SW to deal with that new barb camp and then defogging in that direction. I'll get the builder out and I think another warrior before building the monument.