[SPOILERS] scooter's PB53

[scooter]

I was mostly asking regarding balance between PRO and FIN, as I got the impression that you were initially heavily favoring PRO here. Now that FIN is starting to be much more valuable sooner than you thought (again, by my vague recollection and partly due to the map) do you think they are in balance with respect to each other?

Oh yeah. Well, I don't know. Early commerce is better than later commerce. Part of why I got the advanced start "right" was Protective put it on easy mode. I got Guilds EoT84. It's hard to put that into perspective due to the nature of the advanced start, but that's obscenely early for a game where I did only start with 2 techs like a normal ancient game, even if the snowball kicked off sooner. If I don't pick Protective, I don't have Guilds right now, and AT's capital may not be falling for longer. Financial mattered for that too, but the biggest deal was getting to Currency sooner, which was worth an absolute ton of commerce, and Protective was way more important for that. Sure, I Oracled Currency, but getting to Priesthood first without sacrificing on worker techs while also expanding fast thanks to Protective was the reason that happened.


Basically, I'm in a borderline lead position, and I attribute Protective to that a lot more than Financial. Financial may be the key to helping me keep this lead, though.

[NobleHelium]

Not really. For starters comparing FIN, Cornflakes bulbed Engineering recently, which in terms of beakers is worth almost the exact same as how much each trait has given me, and I expect him to do more bulbing very soon. I think he's getting more value out of GLH/Pyramids right now than I am out of either trait.  Might be a good idea to ask him about that for comparison purposes. Most of my strong early expansion was purely due to getting the advanced start right and not getting two cities razed by neighbors. Now of course, it's better to get that commerce early, but if we're purely comparing raw beakers, that's not even Cornflakes' only bulb, so he's gotten more raw commerce out of PHI than I have out of either trait. Industrious is harder to gauge because it still required him to make some hammer investments, but as he adds cheap forges everywhere in a whip-heavy world, he's going to make that investment back pretty quickly I think.

Well you can't just attribute the GPs to PHI and be done with it. You can still get GPs without PHI.

[scooter]

Not really. For starters comparing FIN, Cornflakes bulbed Engineering recently, which in terms of beakers is worth almost the exact same as how much each trait has given me, and I expect him to do more bulbing very soon. I think he's getting more value out of GLH/Pyramids right now than I am out of either trait.  Might be a good idea to ask him about that for comparison purposes. Most of my strong early expansion was purely due to getting the advanced start right and not getting two cities razed by neighbors. Now of course, it's better to get that commerce early, but if we're purely comparing raw beakers, that's not even Cornflakes' only bulb, so he's gotten more raw commerce out of PHI than I have out of either trait. Industrious is harder to gauge because it still required him to make some hammer investments, but as he adds cheap forges everywhere in a whip-heavy world, he's going to make that investment back pretty quickly I think.

Well you can't just attribute the GPs to PHI and be done with it.  You can still get GPs without PHI.

Of course. But he's generated I think more than twice as many GPs as the next highest player. The GPs he used that he would not have gotten without PHI have mostly gone to bulbs. It's not a one-to-one, but the point is it's in the ballpark.

[scooter]

Turn 88


Shorter update today.





AT added two Spears, an Axe, and an Archer to his capital's defenses. I begrudgingly decided my CKNs are too shot-up to advance this turn, because I'm going to need the raw hitters. My knights get odds on this stack immediately, but I can't lose a lot of them because this will be a two-turn fight as-is as he keeps adding units. So we wait. Next turn I'll begin advancing the CKNs, which means they'll be ready to start attacking the capital on T91. The 2-movers have some flexibility, so I've got them dancing around the edges a bit. He can't get odds on them, but I'm keeping them out of range for now. I'm leaning towards upgrading two of my HAs to Knights next turn. His Galley did re-appear in the north and is positioned to land on MH370's island, but I think the Galley is empty. If it lands some units, I may upgrade that Archer to a longbow and be done with it. Otherwise, I expect him to take the 35% shot on my Galley and probably win. That would be obnoxious, but not a huge deal.





Scouting Commodore. Will arrive at his border with AT in a couple turns.

[scooter]

So, I had no intention to move the Knight onto the floodplains directly adjacent to the city. I was considering a couple variations west of this (either with the CKNs or onto the grass forest) because it might bait him into taking an over river attack into a Shock Knight, but while doing that my finger just slipped. The Knight 2 tiles north is Sentry, so I didn't actually gain anything by way of visibility intel with this move other than the hill 1S of Sack, which won't figure into my attack of the city. I think this is reasonable grounds for a reload, but I'll leave that to the lurkers.

[sunrise089]

WW is getting to you Scooter. First you call Lewwyn a troll, and now you bulldoze a reload request over top of us poor lurkers

[scooter]

WW is getting to you Scooter. First you call Lewwyn a troll, and now you bulldoze a reload request over top of us poor lurkers

I bulldozed it? I just requested the reload and showed the evidence in my thread. I didn't approve it or do the reload or anything. I haven't had much time to be near a machine at all today, so I just saw late this morning that a reload happened on PBSpy, so I hopped in and played because my window for the day was about to close, and I'm in a turn split.


Sorry, I just assumed someone, like, signed off on it or something . I didn't know Cornflakes just kinda made the decision.

[scooter]

Oh side note, why was the consensus against the reload? I didn't think it would really be controversial.

[sunrise089]

Bulldoze was an attempt at humor. You are still a good guy except perhaps to Lewwyn

From the limited discussion there was agreement against reload though reasons differed. Broadly, taken individually or in combination: the misclick had an in-game advantage, however slight; the cost of the misclick was not particularly high to the misclicking player (obviously minds can differ here); and lurkers are reluctant to create precedents for reloads which might be more problematic/contentious under hypothetical future circumstances.

[scooter]

So I have a dilemma. I'd like to declare on Commodore and kill this scout. He's closed OB with me, and I suspect he's going to join in the war pretty soon anyway, so I don't want him to continue to have map knowledge. There's a few problems here.


1) He has not played this turn, but last turn he played before me (after playing after me for many turns in a row). This would technically be a double move even though this scout has been stationary for some time.

2) I could wait and play after him, but that would put us in a 3-way turn split because I'm currently in the first half against AT. That seems worse. I'd also like to not inform him of my plans if I have to wait.


Any thoughts? Feels like declaring now and killing the scout should be OK, but it's awkward.