RBP2 Lurker Discussion Thread - No Players!

[Square Leg]

I think speakers beef is that Athlete slaved a Jann once he realised that the caravel wouldn't complete.

It is fair.

Nect PB double move rule - they are allowed - deal with it.

[Serdoa]

After reading what Sullla wrote I can certainly understand where he is coming from. If athlete was already in the first 12 hours of the timer due to the war with slaze it makes sense that they have the second half of the timer. And then it does not make sense at all that athlete still moved units in the second half.

Sure the rule states

"In cases where a war declaration occurs and the side declared upon (the declared) still has units to move, the declared may still move these units, and this counts as a move for the purpose of which party gets the SWP in all subsequent turns."

, but as athlete was locked in the first 12 hours, he should not have any units left which are allowed to move (by the out of game-rules).

So did both parties break the rules? Then it seems to be fair to let the game go on instead of reloading (from my point of view at least).

Edit: Reread what athlete wrote, he says he did not move units. Though I still fully understand why Spullla did not see it as rule-breaking.

[spacemanmf]

I thought the intention of allowing the defender to whip in the second half of the turn after the attacker's move is to avoid the disadvantage of moving first, which is that slaved units do not appear until the turn has rolled.

Scenario 1
Attacker moves first, defender moves second. Defender whips. Turn rolls. Whipped units appear. Attacker moves first.

So whipped units appear before attacker's next move.

Scenario 2
Defender moves first, attacker moves second. Turn rolls. Defender moves first, including whips, attacker moves second. Turn rolls. Whipped units appear. Defender moves first, etc...

So whipped units do not appear before attacker's next move.

Drafting is different because it does not require the turn to roll. So it is fair to have drafting done in the correct half of the turn with no catch up afterwards.

The problem with Speaker's comment is that, although the objective is to make the Pitboss games pseudo-turn-based, it is not the same because an artificial turn split is not the same as the end of turn.

[WilliamLP]

It's hard not to get involved in the drama of this game even as a lurker isn't it?

In my opinion, it should never be in good faith to make moves that depend on playing at exactly the last second, because it makes it essential for optimal play to always be logged in at precisely the time when the turns rolls over. Maybe a simple guideline like this could go a long way? I'm thinking of something like in Magic: The Gathering where no matter what you do you always need to give the other player a reasonable time to react, if it is legal.

[MWIN]

oh crap. I didn't expect this reaction from speaker. I thought I was trying to defuse the situation...

Half of what story? Of why kathlete refuses to end his turn, and is the only player in the game who feels the need to post "Turn played" in the IT thread every single turn, but still give himself the opportunity to do whatever it is that he does when he logs back in multiple times? Of how the alliance of 5 manipulated the turn timer so they would have the maximum amount of time to discuss their strategy every turn, back when they were failing to attack us? Or am I missing the part where dying players gifted away their cities to allies so that people attacking them couldn't capture them for themselves? Maybe those cities were promised to the allies many turns previously and it was just a coincidence? In both cases (Jowy and Whosit)?

Maybe I don't care about reading the other threads, and the next lurker who posts this inflammatory remark, which has truly angered us every time it has been used, is going to be asked to kindly leave Sullla and my personal thread that we are nice enough to share with you all?

[T-hawk]

I'm thinking of something like in Magic: The Gathering where no matter what you do you always need to give the other player a reasonable time to react, if it is legal.

I see the analogy, but that doesn't really work here. MTG is always played in real time, either at a real table or on Magic Online. Pitboss Civ is not real time; many players can check in only once per day, so a reasonable time to react would have to extend to 24 hours, and you'd slow the game to a crawl. And that's not 24 hours just per turn - hypothetically that could be 24 hours to react to every single unit move or whipped city, and one turn could last for weeks.

[WilliamLP]

I see the analogy, but that doesn't really work here. MTG is always played in real time, either at a real table or on Magic Online. Pitboss Civ is not real time; many players can check in only once per day, so a reasonable time to react would have to extend to 24 hours, and you'd slow the game to a crawl. And that's not 24 hours just per turn - hypothetically that could be 24 hours to react to every single unit move or whipped city, and one turn could last for weeks.

True, but there's a big difference between being assured that if you log in within a half-hour window you will get a chance to react, and needing (for optimal play) to be prepared for a last second white-knuckled arcade race. Anyone in a game like this had better be dedicated, but that doesn't mean they should be required to be obsessed to that level, does it?

[Serdoa]

Well if I understand athlete right, this drama could be over quick, because it seems he wants to finish his caravel at reload. And I would guess that Speaker and Sullla would not care about the caravel.

Also I am still not sure if 1,5 turns reload because of one build is a good trade. It probably is impossible to redo the exact same things for all other cities and units for all players, so the game will be influenced much more by the reload then by simply having the caravel not finished. It probably would even be better, if possible, to have a game admin worldbuilder him a caravel.

[m4gill4]

oh man, this game just jumped the shark

[T-hawk]

Gonna post this here since Speaker will blow his top if anyone disagrees with him.

We are not graciously accepting anything, and yes, this will make a significant difference in the outcome on the western islands. If he is allowed to 3-pop slave a Janissary in response to our troop landing, we will not be able to capture the city

Well, the fact is that Athlete IS allowed to do that. If Speaker did not consider that possibility, then it is his fault for not bringing enough troops to deal with it or for not knowing the rule in the first place. Powell Doctrine, bring overwhelming force to deal with any unforeseen problems.

Speaker's argument is essentially "we could have played clock games so he wouldn't have had that chance to whip." That doesn't fly with me, using the RL clock to bilk your opponent out of his proper chance to react is not sportsmanship.