Gaspar & Noble make their triumphant? return; mostly just get asked about "The List"

[NobleHelium]

We would tech Mysticism if we need to build a monument...? That's missing the point.

[scooter]

We would tech Mysticism if we need to build a monument...?  That's missing the point.

How is that missing the point? The opportunity cost is higher in the version you're playing on now.


Just comparing Agriculture vs Mysticism. In vanilla BtS, Agriculture is 10b more expensive. So the opportunity cost of not having Mysticism virtually non-existent because Agri is 10b more and Myst has less impact on growth. Here though, due to tech cost changes and the palace change, the opportunity cost of starting with Agri and teching Mysticism versus the opposite is 10b + ~1b/turn for every turn you don't have Mysticism. That's not enough to make Mysticism better, but acting like it hasn't narrowed quite a bit is pretty weird to me, especially it's trivial to tech Agriculture in time for a worker if that's what your start needs. I'd say in this mod version if you were lucky enough to have only Farm foods, you should probably take Mysticism over Agriculture because you'll need them both eventually, so pick the one that's more efficient in the long run to start with.

edit: fixed some wordings

[NobleHelium]

We're saying it's still the worst tech with 1 bpt. That doesn't mean we're saying it's not significantly better than before.

[scooter]

We're saying it's still the worst tech with 1 bpt.  That doesn't mean we're saying it's not significantly better than before.

I don't think we disagree that much, but I think the idea that it's "by far" the worst tech here is what's wrong. If your start had no deer and was just Corn/Fish, I think Mysticism/Fishing would be your best starting tech choices, not Agriculture/Fishing. Agriculture is actually a pretty bad starting tech in this version unless you have an AH food, and I'd say in many possible cases it's inferior to Mysticism.

[NobleHelium]

I didn't say by far, Thoth said that.

In your scenario I would say the best starting techs are Mining/Fishing.

[BRickAstley]

I just took the all caps too much to heart.

Don't ever take any of Noble's rage too much to heart.

[Charriu]

I will remember that.

[Gaspar]

Played t18...

Boring turn is boring. We discovered one coastal tile and nowt else because Noble made questionable scouting decisions two turns ago, so the scout is just moving through already explored territory and will be for the near future.



Hunting came in @EOT, same turn the worker lands on the deer, so don't we look smart? SD is spending his EP on us still because he's warrior rushing us. SD also grew a size this turn.

[NobleHelium]

Played turn 19.



Worker is camping the deer.  This has the nice side effect of preventing Serdoa from DOWing us and sitting on the deer with his scout.  Not that I think he would, but a different player in a different game perhaps.  It could even be us in a different game!  Something to think about.



Okay so there are two sets of scores. This is because this is the 20th turn which means players gained land points at full EOT. This is in contrast to other sources of score changes which are generally seen during or immediately after a player's turn (e.g. a city being settled, a city being whipped, or a tech gained at EOT). I posted two sets of scores so that we can easily differentiate the former from the latter. Because we are last in turn order, we are able to see these score sources separately rather than together, by looking at the scores before and after we end turn.

Bob and Lewwyn both grew to 3. Lewwyn also got a tech. He last got Hunting on t14, which means this is either Agriculture or Mining. There is a 2k power increase so it can be either Mining or Agriculture and a warrior being completed. Both are within the realm of possibility given the range of tech rates and KTB values, but I think Agriculture is a bit more likely.

We got 22 land points for 8 tiles. SD got 19, which is 7 land tiles. Bob only got 16, which is 6 land tiles. 6 land tiles was the rival lowest amount on the first turn. Lewwyn, Rusten and Serdoa all got 22 land points. Remember this is the city tile and inner ring only. In five turns there will be a second round for the second ring.

Bobchillingworth - Mining, Mysticism, Hunting t5, Agriculture t9, Fishing t17
superdeath & GeneralKilCavalry - Agriculture, Mining, Bronze Working t14
Lewwyn - Fishing, Mysticism, Meditation t9, Hunting t14, Agriculture (or Mining) t19
Serdoa - Hunting, Mining, Agriculture t5, Bronze Working ~t20
Rusten & Hitru - Hunting, Mysticism, Agriculture t4, Mining t11
Gaspar & NobleHelium - Mysticism, Wheel, Fishing t6, Mining t13, Hunting t18

[novice]

Did you figure out the map dimensions? I think you can use the goto pathing into the fog to figure them out?

Is Circumnavigation still a thing?