[PB56] Amicalola and Tarkeel are Feeling Spicy

[Amicalola]

Are you saying it is a square map?

Saying that when i put land down going both north/south and east/west both ways ended up being 25/26 tiles before it swapped. Being a Toroidal map it wraps both ways.

I just want to say, I am 95% sure this translates to "yes, it is a square"

[superdeath]

Are you saying it is a square map?

Saying that when i put land down going both north/south and east/west both ways ended up being 25/26 tiles before it swapped. Being a Toroidal map it wraps both ways.

I just want to say, I am 95% sure this translates to "yes, it is a square"

i said it like that because god forbid someone hears me say "yeah its a square map" and they go looking for a square map template and then get mad if its not like that..

[Amicalola]

Hahah yeah no stress, I'm just being cheeky to mask my angst while I wait for my pick.

[Amicalola]

Alright, so picks. Here are the civs that I have thought about seriously, and why I decided to or not to like them. In (very rough) reverse order.

America: Sounded fun until I remembered I'm not PHI.

Byzantium: Lazteuq was a bit fast.

Carthage: Jowy was a bit fast.

Germany: Would be fun to try, maybe a bit slow?

Spain: Sounded fun until I remembered I'm not PRO.

England: Maybe! It's REALLY slow, and puts a huge target on my back, but the synergy is there.

Inca: Once again, my start sucks for it. I really want to try these guys though! The quechua might not be useful if it's a large map.

India: First I was Amicalola. Then Mjmd ded-lurked me. Then I Became Mjmd.  More seriously, the Fast Worker isn't amazing for this start, but I have been wanting to try it with IMP and it is good in general. I don't think they'll be available though.

Khmer: Decent everything, not uber-anything. Worth considering.

China: BUSTED UU. Take it for defense in the vulnerable midgame, then out-tech with financial. Maybe synergy?

Mali: Awful starting techs for this, but I like the uniques both, Mints for their passive gain and Skirmishers for stopping me getting rushed. 

Overall: I would say I am looking at (hopefully!) one of: India, Khmer, China, Mali or Carthage. I think Mining is the best starting tech in CtH, because BW is everything (doubly-so with IMP). My tech path would almost certainly, with any of these, be Fishing -> Agri -> BW. I'd especially like Khmer's starting techs, but am less sold on them overall. The opposite is true of India. If all 4 of those are taken, I will have to improvise a little. Maybe Inca or England. If any lurkers would like to remind me of ovbious good civs that my un-coffee'd brain forgot, I never complain.

[Tarkeel]

First off, I'm unspoiled on the game and available as a ded-lurker if you want someone to toss ideas at.

Having slept on it, I think that despite requests for this map not to be lush, SD will have made it quite lush. It's the new mapmaker's trap. Especially based on the capital. That makes Charismatic worse.

Just because the capital is relatively lush doesn't mean that the terrain around it will be. Fog-gazing seems to indicate that north to east-ish could be lush with a grassland river, but the south and west seems pretty barren.

The capital isn't that lush, although lake crabs are yummy. There are only 2 hills (both grass), 3 food and 2 lux, with a single river-grass cottage while having 8 plain coasts and only 2 forests. It's not bad by any means, but it's not a mid-game powerhouse. Actually, thinking about it some more, it might be a pretty good Moai-candidate.


Financial might be a good pick going by the amount of coasts available, and Imperialistic might actually be better if we assume the lack of forests is universal. Makes early pottery and granary mandatory IMHO.

[Amicalola]

Hey. Heh, I just saw your post in the game thread, not sure how I missed it. I'm comfortable enough that I don't feel like I need a dedlurker, but I'd definitely never say no, so if you're interested, welcome aboard!

That is a good point, I probably shouldn't assume from the capital that the map will be lush. I was also thinking from PB53, although maybe SD will have listened and toned that down a bit. Also, you are 100% right about the capital not being a crazy powerhouse midgame; I more am thinking early game, especially with whipping settlers and workers out from T20-100. With such high food (and low hills, as you say), whipping is clearly king here. With a lighthouse we have three 6-food tiles in first-ring, which is nuts. One thing that might be annoying is no food in second ring, so sharing with a second city might be hard. We'll need to explore to find out though, obviously.

I definitely agree on the Moai! I had the same thought, and if we can find an early stone I think an early Moai here could be great.

Also definitely agree on early Pottery! Might for straight to that after BW. Makes Hunting/Mining civs especially good, or Wheel/Mining Mali. Really Mining is the main tech I think.

I thought Financial was easily the best trait here thanks to the double seafood at the start; we rack up that commerce really quickly. I'm really pleased with the leader we got, because I was worried Victoria would be taken. Are there any civs, other than the ones I mentioned, you think are especially good for us?

[Tarkeel]

First some thoughts on starting techs:

• Fishing is needed early on, and will let you work the clam-lake from the start. Leads to Pottery.
  
• The Wheel is mainly needed for Pottery in this start.
  
• Agriculture is immediately useful, and leads for Pottery.
  
• Hunting is also useful with Ivory in BFC, but not a priority.
  
• Mysticism and early religion could be fun with crab-lake, but with Spain taken...
  
• Mining is actually one I think we can wait for.
  

I actually think that Fishing is the most important start-tech as it will jump-start techs.

Thoughts on Civs:

Spain-on-a-crab-lake would be fun to try, too bad it's taken. That would mean an early workboat and late worker as we wouldn't start with any worker techs. It might actually work here though, but it's not the optimal start. (Too bad it's taken)
Carthage is probably best with Protective, but still a good pick. (also taken)
England might actually be one of our better picks with cheaper banks. Starts with Fishing+Mining.
Germany has a very strong late-game but starts with Hunting/Mining.

Some different Civ options:

Dutch can be a late game powerhouse if the map is water-based, but it seems from the threat that the map will be more pangea-focused. Agriculture and Fishing aren't the worst techs to start with either.
Viking are also scary on a water-based map.
Holy Roman Empire are more or less immune to knights with the Landsknecht, while Rathaus are expensive but can be effective if we manage to claim too many cities.
Japan or Mali both have forge based UB's so would work better with Industrious. Japan starts with Fishing and The Wheel, which might be the ideal starting techs here.

[Tarkeel]

Oh, any thoughts on a naming scheme? Based on your thread title I would suggest spices...

Anise
Basil
Chili / Cilantro / Chives / Clove (too many to choose here)
Dill
Elderflower
Fennel
Garlic / Galangal
etc

[Amicalola]

With mining, it looks bad in a way, because there are almost no forests. However, there is also very little production here, so I think we want to be cracking the whip as early as possible. Perhaps even the first settler?

Japan is a neat idea, I shouldn't have forgotten them.

I like Mali and England both quite a bit. England is especially good considering we have the bank bonus, as you say, but I always feel that we want a forge in nearly every city anyway. To me, the difference is 10% extra gold after Metal Casting or 15% after Banking. Mali definitely has a more useful UU, but England has better techs. You're right about Hunting not being a priority, I think I overvalued it, and The Wheel and Fishing are both better (I don't love starting with Agriculture, as we can easily research it before a worker finishes; it is much cheaper in CtH). Man, it is honestly insane how much having a ded-lurker to challenge incorrect assumptions helps.

My thinking is that we want Fishing/Agriculture very quickly, then Mining/Bronze Working, then Wheel/Pottery, in rough order. Obviously we can start with some of those. This looks to me like Fishing/Mining is the best tech start, with Wheel/Mining second, which supports the Mali or England picks.

I definitely want to play the HRE at some point, but I think I want to wait until I'm organised.

How much experience do you have with Close to Home?

[Amicalola]

And I think that naming scheme makes perfect sense! Will be easy to remember cities too, unlike some of the overly complicated schemes I see here sometimes.

Perhaps Cities after Spices, and Workers after Herbs?

I will build a sim once we have our civ, and try to work out the best opening.