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I think they have explained why they did not want to do this (though I am unsure if there reason matters at this point) TT.
And I can understand them somehow. This game is no tech-trading, meaning alliances are not worth as much as in PB1. As such the "alliance" formed in this game (and playing together another one) was only to get them out of the competition. Later there was again no incentive for: Jowy gifting his cities to athlete, Whosit gifting his cities to Nakor or (and I think that one is ridicolous) athlete gifting cities to slaze whom he did fight, sign peace, receive an army, betray him and attack with this army. I mean, it is not like athlete and slaze had a good relationship in the game or anything (what could at least a little bit explain the gifting from Jowy and Whosit). It is really only a "screw you" to Sullla and Speaker. I am not sure if we all would act so much differently in this situation - especially when we only have our own knowledge about what has happened and why.
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Quote:@TT and Selrahc: I've raised this in another thread, but keep in mind that some people take NAPs much more seriously than others. If S+S signed a NAP with Athlete some (read: sunrise089) would say they don't have a right to break it. If they want to be able to break it over gifted cities the time to agree to that was when the NAP was being negotiated.
Yeah. I suppose it is about how much a NAP can be pushed. To me stealing cities and pillaging city improvements around conquered cities is simply too far. I guess you(And Spullla) are more forgiving than me.
I think you're right that they needed some more concrete terms negotiated though.
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From Athlete's point of view, I think his motivation at this point is definitely not spite, but just wanting to get out of the game without having it prolonged playing a bunch of meaningless turns with just scattered island cities. To that end, maybe gifting cities to slaze is the _most_ benign option towards Spullla? He could have gifted them to Nakor too, and I don't think that would be any better!
A "spirit" of fighting to the last man is one thing if you're playing a single player epic over a day, but maybe another if the game takes a daily investment over nearly a year?
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I was thinking about giving my thoughts on this little bit of controversy, but have decided that it's probably not my place to do so.
Instead, I would like to say that I am enormously amused that my spoiler thread is still second in both views, and close to second place in actual posts, despite the fact that I've been eliminated for awhile.
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Whosit Wrote:I was thinking about giving my thoughts on this little bit of controversy, but have decided that it's probably not my place to do so.
Instead, I would like to say that I am enormously amused that my spoiler thread is still second in both views, and close to second place in actual posts, despite the fact that I've been eliminated for awhile.
How about the fact that you barely passed us, and we've been eliminated for over 5 months!
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Whosit Wrote:I was thinking about giving my thoughts on this little bit of controversy, but have decided that it's probably not my place to do so.
Instead, I would like to say that I am enormously amused that my spoiler thread is still second in both views, and close to second place in actual posts, despite the fact that I've been eliminated for awhile.
You provided entertainment to the masses - its a mark as to how well you played and you should be proud of yourself.
regoarrarr Wrote:How about the fact that you barely passed us, and we've been eliminated for over 5 months!
well you are not known as a prolific spammer for nothing :neenernee: and besides, alot of people wanted your team to pull off a great escape.
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regoarrarr Wrote:How about the fact that you barely passed us, and we've been eliminated for over 5 months!
Adlain Wrote:well you are not known as a prolific spammer for nothing :neenernee: and besides, alot of people wanted your team to pull off a great escape.
What he said. Heh heh heh. Still, I guess that's something, indeed. 
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WilliamLP Wrote:From Athlete's point of view, I think his motivation at this point is definitely not spite, but just wanting to get out of the game without having it prolonged playing a bunch of meaningless turns with just scattered island cities. To that end, maybe gifting cities to slaze is the _most_ benign option towards Spullla? He could have gifted them to Nakor too, and I don't think that would be any better!
A "spirit" of fighting to the last man is one thing if you're playing a single player epic over a day, but maybe another if the game takes a daily investment over nearly a year?
While I understand that sentiment, I don't think that Spullla were more than 2-3 turns from capturing the cities, and consequently I don't think it would have been a massive time drain for Athlete to play a couple more days. Combined with the fact that Athlete has never exactly had a close relationship with Slaze, and I can understand why Spullla are so infuriated.
Personally, I think it would have saved a massive amount of trouble and frustration if Athlete had simply allowed the island cities to be captured, or gifted them to Spullla.
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Well we'll see what happens with Athlete and Spullla when he's dead. There probably won't be much drama. I mean, look at all the crap they said about Jowy.
Debating about it the third time straight is seems to be redundant.
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sunrise089 Wrote:@TT and Selrahc: I've raised this in another thread, but keep in mind that some people take NAPs much more seriously than others. If S+S signed a NAP with Athlete some (read: sunrise089) would say they don't have a right to break it. If they want to be able to break it over gifted cities the time to agree to that was when the NAP was being negotiated.
I guess it's a different view of what an NAP means, but to me taking the other person's cities (essentially coming in on the other side of a war) and pillaging improvements is something I would define as an aggressive act that thus voids the NAP. I guess the difference is whether you view an NAP as simply "won't declare war" or whether it is "Non Aggression Pact". If it is the later, in my opinion it has already been broken by accepting the cheese gifts. (for the record, in other games if someone does do cheese gifts on me, the person accepting them better be able to defend them in game!)
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