PB57 Lurker Thread

[NobleHelium]

All jungle growth has been disabled. I'll check the second start.

[Tarkeel]

I haven't had time to look at the complete map, so these are my impressions based on the screenshots.

I'm not certain how I feel about the off-screen luxuries, but I think it's a nice touch. Maybe nudge the players to settle in their area through placement of other features.

Start 1: Boston isn't a very obvious spot based on what's visible; Maybe move the hill NE of your Boston to that city?
Start 2: Sparta is a more obvious spot, Maybe move Sparta's pigs so that it's visible (2W?) Could also change the PH next to the corn to grass.
Start 3: I like this one as it is.
Start 4: This one is pretty OK, but maye give Boston a PH?
Start 5: The PH between cow and pigs could be a more enticing spot than where Kish is, so maybe swap the plains around here as well?

Of course, these changes might make it too obvious where to settle. Overall, it looks pretty well balanced. The river in #2 looks weird, and #4 feels more cramped than the others.

[NobleHelium]

I'm not looking to tell players exactly where to settle by placing those spots with plains hills. There is one plains hill in each start that has a 6f and a 5f and ivory (let me know if I messed this up) but other than that I am more likely to remove plains hills that are too obvious and too good city spots beyond that first one than I am to add them. Good maps are about providing players options while balancing that with reducing the odds of screwing up their game entirely. I can't say that I thoroughly looked at each spot and all likely permutations of where players might settle to check that each start had enough reasonable variations though, because I've already built up a lot of frustration trying to build this map according to all the demands placed upon it, my personal desire to produce a good map, and the mechanics of actually tweaking and testing the advanced start. (I have to go into a normal start to change the map every time or else the map would have preplaced cities from the advanced start. I also need to swap around the starting positions in the map file to test them. And it's super easy to launch a new game with a normal start when you meant to do an advanced start one. IN SHORT IT IS A HUGE HASSLE AND I AM NEVER DOING AN ADVANCED START MAP AGAIN.)

I fixed the issue with copper on start 2 (which is the third one in the screenshots) and also added coal and land oil.

As for the off-screen luxuries, I believe all of them are visible if the players settle on the island. I'm not saying they should definitely settle on the island nor am I sure I would personally settle on the island to start - but I think it is a very interesting question to pose. And if some players don't start on the island they will likely look to settle it very early, so I think that is fine enough to use that as the way to point them to the off-screen luxury.

I'm still tweaking the map, especially the bits not shown in the screenshots. So don't feel discouraged if you have more opinions, points, or arguments.

[civac2]

I will have a look tonight. Didn't get to it yesterday.

[Tarkeel]

I totally agree BTW, it was just that for some of the starts it was more obvious to settle at the luxuries than in the others. Good point about the islands, but start 2 and 3 have their off-screen luxuries in other spots. They're next to good city spots so it's a fair chance they're claimed regardless. I still think #5 could lose that southern PH, and the river in #2 needs a tweak.

I like that everybody has equal access to internal ICTRs from the start, so I think most will plant a city there.

[Mjmd]

I know SD balanced around people settling on plains hill shown, and then of course because it is advanced start, many people didn't follow that assumption. Just like game design in general you can try to think of all the combos, but you have more people who are trying to break it. Looks like a good faith effort, which with advanced start is I think all people can expect.

[darrelljs]

A wise man once said the best advice to give aspiring map makers is don't make maps.

Darrell

[Bobchillingworth]

This is completely unrelated to the creation of the map or game at hand, but I am compelled to ask: why do you sign each of your posts individually? Would it not be more efficient to simply create a signature that says "Darrell", so as to automate the process of appending your name to them?

[NobleHelium]

One of the things I learned upon my return to the forum is that it is ten years later and Darrell is still typing his name in every post.

NobleHelium

[Bobchillingworth]

It's the sort of thing I could imagine getting into an insignificant debate about with my very Boomer parents: "I have to sign my posts, Bob, it would be rude not to! You sign emails, don't you? And besides, how else will they know it's me?"