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NobleHelium · December 11th, 2020, 16:05

Is there an easy way to add a hotkey to deselect the currently selected unit without selecting a new unit? I think that would reduce misclicks in PBs. I'm guessing it can't be done, but figured I'd ask.

Charriu · December 11th, 2020, 18:18

I see what I can do.

civac2

I have a potential bug for Charriu in my PB56 thread.

Charriu · December 25th, 2020, 13:58

For everybody else civac looked into this and it looks like there is no bug

civac2

Since you did not respond to the last post in my thread let me reiterate that the issue absolutely is a bug. It's not a real problem though. You need to have quite unlucky timing to trigger it. But it should not work like it does.

Charriu · December 30th, 2020, 08:10

This is only the changelog compared to version 1.6. All differences between versions are in yellow. This is only a proposal right now, which I want to discuss with you.

Proposal version 2.0

Tile Yields and Improvements

Lumbermills: Available at Metal Casting, +1 commerce with Machinery, +1 commerce with Electricity, Lumber mills get their +1 commerce bonus next to a river on all river tiles, not only on straight river tiles, reduce buildtime reduced to 4 from 8
Forest preserves: +1 commerce, now +1 commerce on the corner of rivers like above

Game Mechanics

Drafting: Rifles now cost 2 pop to draft.
AP Resolutions: Declare War (on a non-member), Force Peace (between two members), Religious victory, and Assign City are no longer eligible resolution actions.
Fail-gold: You never get fail-gold if you also completed the wonder somewhere else (so no National Wonder fail-gold, or doubling up on a wonder to guarantee yourself a paycheck. The game still informs you that you received "0 gold" from your hammers).
Toroidal Maintenance: Now return city maintenance as if the map were Cylindrical.
War Weariness: War weariness declines faster after the war ended
Religion spread: Spreading religions via missionaries to your own cities never fails
Global warming: Removed
Espionage: Active missions removed
Espionage: 'No espionage' option fixed, see bugfix section for more details
We love the King day: Health surplus adds towards probability of WLTKD just as population, still requires 8 pop to be triggered at all.

Techs

Agriculture: Cost 40 instead of 60
Mysticism: Cost 60 instead of 50
Fishing: Cost 50 instead of 40
Metal Casting: Cost 300 instead of 450
Alphabet: Cost 250 instead of 300
Refrigeration: lose +1 sea movement

Buildings

Castle: Obsoletes at Corporation instead of Economics
Customs House: Cost 120 instead of 180, also applies to all UBs based on Customs House (Feitoria)
Colosseum: -25% war weariness

National Wonders

Red Cross: Cost 200 instead of 600
West Point: Cost 550 instead of 800, +5 XP instead of 4, Requires a level 5 unit instead of 6

Wonders

Resource modifiers: All wonders that had +100% production with a specific resource now only have +50% production with that resource.
Great Lighthouse: +1 trade route in coastal cities instead of +2
Statue of Zeus: Obsolete at Gunpowder

Unit mechanics

Flanking: Flanking strength (used to calculate damage from flanking strikes) of all units reduced by 50%.
Circumnavigation: Unlocked by Optics, +1 trade route in all coastal cities instead of +1 movement and can be achieved by everybody
Coastal blockade: only blocks sea trade routes and resources provided by sea trade, blockaded cities can still work blocked tiles.
Barbs now never attack your unit stack if the stack includes a settler and a unit that is giving military happiness
Barbs never raze a city even autoraze. On recapturing such a city you too do not autoraze it.

Land units

Scout: +100% vs Animals gained with Hunting, no tech required, that way everybody starts with a scout
Swordsman: +25% city attack instead of +10%, also applies to UUs Jaguar Warrior and Gallic Swordsman
War elephant: Strength 7 instead of 8 and +70% vs mounted units instead of +50%, does not apply to Khmer UUs, requires Ivory or Iron, does apply to Khmer UUs
Explorer: Gains Flanking
Airship: Cannot see submarines
ICBM: Cost 1500 instead of 500
Tactical Nuke: Cost 750 instead of 250
Nukes: Nukes never create fallout on tiles containing strategic resources.

Naval units

Work Boat: no longer require any tech (still require Fishing to work water tiles).
Galleon: Requires Paper and Astronomy, Dutch UU still only requires Astronomy
Privateer: Required techs are Gunpowder and Astronomy instead of Chemistry and Astronomy, removed hidden nationality, can enter other players territory, can be attacked by other players during peace, but cannot attack itself

Corporations

Tech: Discovering the corresponding tech for a corporation earns you an executive of that corporation. To settle the HQ you still need a great person.
Sid's Sushi Co.: Food bonus per resource 0.25 instead of 0.5 and culture bonus per resource 1 instead of 2, maintenance costs halfed
Mining Inc.: Hammer bonus per resource 0.75 instead of 1, maintenance costs 3/4 of original

Civics

Slavery: -1 commerce on Towns
Serfdom: +1 commerce on Farms, +1 hammer on Watermills and Windmills, available on Monarchy instead of Feudalism
Emancipation: lose unhappiness bonus, gain +10% Hammer in all cities
State Property: Lose +10% Hammer in all cities
Environmentalism: Available at Biology instead of Medicine, remove Corporation costs

Traits

Financial: +1 commerce on land tiles that have 3+ commerce, lighthouse gives: +1 commerce on water tiles that have 2+ commerce, +1 commerce on water tiles that have 2+ commerce, +100% production of bank
Expansive: Remove Worker bonus, add +100% production of Aqueduct
Creative: Reduce Library bonus from 100% to 50%, Remove production bonus for Colosseum
Charismatic: +100% production of Monument, +100% production of Colosseum
Imperialistic: +100% production of Stable
Aggressive: -25% -50% unit maintenance cost and +100% production of Jails, free Barrage I for all siege weapons
Philosophical: +150% GPP instead of +100%
Protective: +75% +100% domestic trade route yield (works like a harbor mechanically, just only for domestic trade)

Civs

UBs no longer obsolete at any time. Affected civs are Celts, Egypt, Ethiopia, Native America, Spain
America UB: NEW Immigration Station - Harbor replacement, +3 Great People Points, +1 happy from Hit Musical, Singles and Movies
America UU: NEW Minuteman - Musket replacement, Starts with Guerrilla 1 and Woodsman 1.
Arabia UU: Camel Archer starts with March
Byzantium UB: add +2 artist slots
Celts UB: +1 culture
China UU: max 40% collateral damage instead of max 60%
Germany UB: Assembly Plant available at Steam Power instead of Assembly line, +2 hammer
Germany UU: NEW Riesengarde - replace Grenadier, available at Chemistry, starts with Pinch
Greece UU: Phalanx - replaces spearman, strength 5, +25% hill defense
Inca UB: Makes city act as a source of fresh water instead of +2 culture, Cost 45
India UU: movement 2 instead of 3, start with Mobility promotion
Japan UB: NEW Tatara, Forge replacement - +2 XP to Melee, +10% hammer bonus with coals
Maya UU: Starts with Woodsman 1
Native America Tech: Hunting/Agriculture instead of Fishing/Agriculture
Native America UB: Available at Archery instead of Mysticism, additional +1 XP for gunpowder units, never obsoletes
Russia UB: Replace University instead of Laboratory, only +1 free scientist
Spain UB: Never obsoletes, +2 XP for naval units, does not require Walls
Zulu UU: Remove Mobility promotion

Leaders

Also included are three new leaders for the missing trait combos

LieuYe (ORG/PRO)
San Martin (CHM/CRE) and
Nebuchadnezzar (IND/PHI)

Events

New game options

BUG integration

Additional bug fixes

Added bugfixes from Unoffical Patch https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/u...19.324024/:

Knowledgebase For Modders

Charriu

And here my reasoning for the changes:

Quote:Lumbermills: Available at Metal Casting, +1 commerce with Machinery, +1 commerce with Electricity, Lumber mills get their +1 commerce bonus next to a river on all river tiles, not only on straight river tiles, reduce buildtime reduced to 4 from 8

Although Lumbermills got more popular the one thing that was still a downer with them is the longer build time. With this they are build just as fast as a mine. Of course your worker still needs to enter the forest tile, so it's more a 5 turn build time. Still similar to a mine.

Quote:We love the King day: Health surplus adds towards probability of WLTKD just as population, still requires 8 pop to be triggered at all.

Now for many this will come out of the blue. I was thinking about the UB for Persia and Babylon, which I find still a bit boring and weak especially, because both civs were slightly nerfed by the reduces Agriculture cost. At the same time I still think that the Aqueduct could be made a little bit more popular. The one thing all of these have in common is that they provide health bonus, when you rarely need them.
With this change the early surplus of health bonus gets a bit more use. If one of your city gets up to 8 pop you have a 0.8% to trigger a WLKTD, which reduces the maintenance cost to 0 for this turn. With the this change 1 health surplus adds 0.1% to this probability just the same as a pop does. Of course a pop will still be better then a health surplus, because it can actually work a tile, so there is no reason to not grow and keep the health surplus. This of course does not only apply to the above elements instead it applies to every health bonus from any source. Right now you get health from these sources in the early ancient and classical turns:

2 from Monarchy
2 from fresh water
0.5 from a forest
1 from corn
1 from rice
1 from wheat
1 from fish
1 from clam
1 from crab
1 from cow
1 from pig
1 from sheep
1 from deer
1 from banana
1 from corn with granary
1 from rice with granary
1 from wheat with granary
1 from fish with harbor
1 from clam with harbor
1 from crab with harbor
2 from aqueduct
2 from EXP

So in an extreme scenario in which you have everything from above with say 2 forests you are looking at 26 health in the late classical era, which would be 2.6% percent for WLKTD. (Don't forget that it unlocks with 8 pop, which reduce the health surplus.) Of course this is an extreme case and you usually don't have everything from the above list.

In addition this improves the following UBs and wonders

- Hanging Gardens +1 health everywhere
- Babylong UB +2 health
- Persia UB +2 health

And to a lesser degree these UBs, because they replace a health building

- Ottoman
- Khmer
- Inca
- Carthage
- America

This change is an experiment. But with this I improve the three elements I wanted to improve with just one changelog entry.

In addition to this change I will also show the WLTKD probability in-game somewhere, which isn't really new information as you just use the population for the probability. Nothing you could not easily calculate before.

Quote:War elephant: Strength 7 instead of 8 and +70% vs mounted units instead of +50%, does not apply to Khmer UUs, requires Ivory or Iron, does apply to Khmer UUs

While looking across the civs UU in comparison to their counters I noticed one element that was lost with the nerf to war elephant. Now the war elephant is still a good unit with 50% against mounted, but against one particular unit that was prominent in recent games it had no chance. This is the cataphract from Byzantium. Back in BtS the 8 str war elephant beat a cataphract with 50% odds if both are unpromoted. But if both have Combat 1 the elephant wins with 64%, same when both have Combat 2 and Formation. My goal therefore was to bring the war elephant back to its old glory against cataphracts and this is done with 70% instead of 50% against mounted units. This change still keeps the war elephant nerfed towards other units. Against mounted units this does not change that much as they performed well against them with 50% too. But with 70% the war elephant is still beaten against a cataphract if it is unpromoeted (37%), but with promotions towards formation it has the old odds from BtS against an equally promoted cataphract.
This change also has the added side effect that the standard war elephant performs better against the Khmer Ballista Elephant.
With all this in mind it is noteworthy that the war elephant still looses against a cataphract, when it defends. Therefore you still want to go for Engineering and pikeman to defend against cataphracts. But with this change you actually have a unit that can beat the cataphract in the open field and is reachable before cataphracts in most cases.

Quote:Privateer: Required techs are Gunpowder and Astronomy instead of Chemistry and Astronomy, removed hidden nationality, can enter other players territory, can be attacked by other players during peace, but cannot attack itself

This is my attempt to keep the gold earning effect via blockade from the privateer, while also reducing its annoying elements. This change has one annoying side effect for the privateer owner. That is that the privateer cannot enter a tile with a unit on it from a different player (because in the background this unit is at war with all players). But with this unit you can now pillage trade routes from other players, while they can still do something against that by killing the privateer without declaring war.

Quote:Slavery: -1 commerce on Towns

I expect this change to be controversial. My goal here is to increase the cost of slavery in the later stages. Of course I could do this by increasing its cost from Medium to High, but this actually does not increase the cost as much as thing change and it has a bigger effect in earlier turns compared to this. Most of the time the first cottage is build during the T30s and with the growth rate of cottages this turns into a town sometime during the T100s. My hope with this change is to make the players look for other civics when they come available.

Quote:Financial: +1 commerce on land tiles that have 3+ commerce, lighthouse gives: +1 commerce on water tiles that have 2+ commerce, +1 commerce on water tiles that have 2+ commerce, +100% production of bank

Many have noticed that I did extensive data mining during the recent PBs. From this data I can say that the current FIN nerf is a reduction of around 20-25% up to T150. But the important factor is that with the bank bonus the FIN player can quickly counter that reduction at that time. I also noticed that FIN is still one of the most popular traits during the PBs. With all that in mind I still think it needs a nerf, but not as big as the initial one. I do this in two parts. First the removal of the bank bonus. From the data I can extrapolate that FIN will be still better then the other eco traits even without cheaper banks. It's not like you cannot build them anymore, they just cost more. The second nerf is that I tie the water commerce bonus to the lighthouse. This is aimed at the early stages in which a coastal start still outperforms other eco traits with FIN. This is mainly a nerf for the early 50-100 turns. But the bonus does not come so late that it is meaningless. Instead it comes with a building, which you build anyway if you want to work coastal tiles. Now of course I hear you say this makes the lighthouse way too strong. I don't think so. For that just ask yourself how many coastal tiles without a sea food resource you work as a FIN player without a lighthouse. I doubt that you work many of these tiles. Therefore the lighthouse already works in a similar way as my change makes it.

Quote:
Creative: Reduce Library bonus from 100% to 50%, Remove production bonus for Colosseum

I'm a bit unsure about this change. I think that CRE in BtS is weaker compared to FIN and EXP. I also noticed that fewer players are taking CRE in CtH before PB58. Therefore I'm going back to the original BtS implementation of the library bonus. The only nerf now is to remove the Colosseum, which now is a bit better due to the war weariness effect. It also fits a different trait better theme-wise.

Quote:Charismatic: +100% production of Monument, +100% production of Colosseum

Quiet a few players mentioned that CHA now infringes a bit on CRE's theme. This change also reduced synergy with Stonehenge. I think CHA can be good without that change. Therefore I only keep the now improved colosseum, which also fits the theme of the trait.

Quote:
Imperialistic: +100% production of Stable

IMP right now is the most popular trait of all, mainly because I removed the worker bonus from EXP. At the same time it is also the most successful trait, which was used by the most dominant players in recent PBs including those who won their PBs. Therefore I remove my initial change to IMP and turn it back to the standard BtS implementation. The stable was way too much for this trait and it is strong enough on it's own. This also applies towards mounted units, which are strong enough already.

Quote:Aggressive: -25% -50% unit maintenance cost and +100% production of Jails, free Barrage I for all siege weapons

I already knew that 25% was to low to have any effect and my data mining proofed that 50% is a better implementation. At the same time I'm willing to risk making AGG to strong and also add Barrage I to siege units. To counter balance this I will remove the jail bonus from AGG, which I added before.

Quote:Protective: +75% +100% domestic trade route yield (works like a harbor mechanically, just only for domestic trade)

This actually less of a buff then some will think. It will still be the 2 commerce trade that you are used to by now. There are three aspects in which this change buffs PRO with the biggest effect in late stages of the game:

With this change you no longer require a connection to your capital for 2 commerce trade routes. This shouldn't have a big effect, because in most scenarios you rarely connect your second to your third city instead of the capital
It's a psychological effect. 100% is feels bigger then 75% although it does the same for the most part. In addition it makes this trait easier to understand.
The biggest effect is in later stages. With this you get to +200% trade yield with a 15 pop coastal city instead of a 20 pop coastal city in the past. (+25% from capital, +50% from harbor, +25% from pop, +100% from PRO)

PRO is already good with it's early commerce bonus. It's effect falls off with foreign trade. With this it can come back in the later stages.

Quote:Byzantium UB: add +2 artist slots

I doubt that players actually build more Hippodromes with this. At the same time this is a tiny nerf to the Byzantines, which are preseved to be too strong.

Quote:Greece UU: Phalanx - replaces spearman, strength 5, +25% hill defense

Greece is one of those civs that is rarely taken (last time in PB43). They are competing against the vikings, which are for the most part better. (Better UU and better UB). While I think that the Greek UB is decent to good (with CHA it is a nice way to pop borders in your conquests, while also providing happiness against war weariness, it is somewhat comparable to the Mayan UB). What I do not like with Greece is their UU. Yes, it's nice to have an axeman without a counter until crossbows or maceman, but did they actually have any decent performance in the past? Therefore I want to introduce this change to the Phalanx, which actually isn't that new. It is the original Greek UU from before BtS, so you could argue it is close to home wink

I think this UU has a better lifespan and is more useful that way. They can actually work against knights. At the same time it also eliminates the annoying effect that I constantly confuse them with the standard spearman, because the icons are so similar. smile

Mjmd · December 30th, 2020, 09:22

Lot of proposed changes.

-Lumbermill change - +1
-We love the King day: I think this change is beyond scope for CtH. Change log length and not well understood anyways.
-War Elephants: I see no reason to change from current just to increase against 1 civ. Nerf Byzantium if you feel its needed (I would say hold judgement on this for a second as not everyone can read current Byzantium games). Speaking of elephants and possible civ nerfs. Khmer have been picked WAY more than Byzantium. I would love to see them at least lose the extra text of attacking other mounted units first outside cities. At 8 strength and with good starting techs I think they will still get picked.
-privateer - fine I guess, but adding change lines
-slavery change - maybe fine, but again adding change lines and going farther from home. By the time you have a lot of towns you typically aren't whipping that much anyways, but there aren't a ton of good alternatives at a relevant point in the tech tree which is why people are still in.
-Financial - agree with getting rid of bank bonus and that is probably enough. Financial will then be the only economic trait without anything else going for it. Evening up economic bonuses is tricky because they should do different things. I don't hate the lighthouse change, but again just a lot of changes.
-Imperialistic - agree with removing stable buff
-Aggressive - your patching this into PB56 right nod

.
-Cha - I think a lot of draw is from the discounted monument at the moment and synergies with rest of trait. Its an overall balanced trait right now, but not broken. I don't think it has been getting picked at an insane rate as is. Rebuffing creative should be more than enough.

civac2 · December 30th, 2020, 09:57

I agree with everything Mjmd said essentially.

Commodore · December 30th, 2020, 10:05

Yeah, I'd have a KISS objection to the Fin-lighthouse thing, I think just killing off the bank bonus is enough. Same kind of issue with the WE; like Mjmd said, why not just remove the BE's sniping ability and just hit 'phracts down to 11 strength?

Charismatic nerf seems a little harsh. Going again for KISS, removing the monument bonus (which I loved) and just making it +2 smile

might be best?

I actually like the Greeks baseline, prefer them to the Vikings to be honest. Phalanx as 5-strength spears are quite strong, although ahistorical as hell. But this is a silly game where pikes are anti-cavalry and not anti-infantry, so what will you do?

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