[PB59 NO PLAYERS] - Jungle All The Way!

[Lewwyn]

OKAY! I have preliminarily finished the base continent. This will then be duplicated into a string of 5. I have not decided whether cylindrical or toroidal is better, but I'm leaning toroidal. I'm looking for comments on the base continent balance to start here. One that is finalized I'll string it out and start looking at balance with astro and in between continents. I do not expect perfection but I would like to do the best I can.

Here is a big stitch of the 40x40 continent:

I have balanced the sections to have 114 mainland tiles. 89 grass, 21 plains.
Each has 35 forests.
Each has 26-30 hills a few of those are in the jungle border which are contested.
Each has 9-11 jungle, again contested
Strategic resources are even.
Each has an equal number of food resources in the same amounts 5 grain 5 AH 1 deer 1 banana(contested though) There are 3 wet grains and 2 dry grains for each. Also each has 4 FP
Happiness: everyone has sugar, ivony, gold, jungled gems in mainland, and a wine in their safe capital island. Each has a silver and fur on islands on either side. 3 whales in the inner ocean(this is the one I'd like some feedback on in particular). There is a single incense on the center island.
Each has approximately 47-48 river tiles. I counted all of them.

The map is designed to provide each player with a safe base, flashpoints on mainland jungled and dual island flashpoints over happy resources. The more aggressive and culturally pressing players are going to have a better shot at critical happiness resources, but navies are going to be very important on the outside and the inside. of the continent.

Balance checker with no water

Total map unfairness (standard deviation in weighted land quality): 455

Player S4
Augustus of Korea
114 land tiles.
(89 grass, 21 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 35 forests, 11 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 27 hills.)
4001.3 total land quality.
35.10 average land quality.
256.0 total food potential.
2.25 food per non-ocean tile.
137.0 total hammer potential.
1.20 hammers per non-ocean tile.
144.0 total commerce potential.
0 coastal tiles.
0 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (1 ivory, 2 copper, 1 uranium, 1 coal, 1 marble, 1 stone, 1 aluminum, 1 horse, 1 oil, 1 iron).
6 happy resources (2 silk, 1 ivory, 1 sugar, 1 gems, 1 gold).
13 food resources (2 rice, 1 sugar, 2 pig, 1 sheep, 2 corn, 1 banana, 2 cow, 1 wheat, 1 deer).
13 health resources (2 rice, 1 sugar, 2 pig, 1 sheep, 2 corn, 1 banana, 2 cow, 1 wheat, 1 deer).

Player S5
Julius_caesar of Spain
114 land tiles.
(89 grass, 21 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 35 forests, 9 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 26 hills.)
4256.2 total land quality.
37.34 average land quality.
255.0 total food potential.
2.24 food per non-ocean tile.
132.0 total hammer potential.
1.16 hammers per non-ocean tile.
163.0 total commerce potential.
0 coastal tiles.
0 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (1 aluminum, 1 stone, 2 copper, 1 ivory, 1 iron, 1 uranium, 1 horse, 1 coal, 1 marble, 1 oil).
6 happy resources (2 spices, 1 ivory, 1 gold, 1 sugar, 1 gems).
13 food resources (1 banana, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 corn, 2 rice, 1 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 sheep).
15 health resources (1 banana, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 spices, 2 corn, 2 rice, 1 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 sheep).

Player S1
Washington of Sumeria
114 land tiles.
(89 grass, 21 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 35 forests, 9 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 27 hills.)
4513.9 total land quality.
39.60 average land quality.
245.0 total food potential.
2.15 food per non-ocean tile.
137.0 total hammer potential.
1.20 hammers per non-ocean tile.
173.5 total commerce potential.
0 coastal tiles.
0 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (1 stone, 1 iron, 1 aluminum, 1 horse, 2 copper, 1 ivory, 1 uranium, 1 marble, 1 coal, 1 oil).
6 happy resources (1 gold, 2 silk, 1 gems, 1 ivory, 1 sugar).
13 food resources (2 cow, 1 banana, 2 pig, 2 rice, 1 deer, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 sugar, 1 wheat).
13 health resources (2 cow, 1 banana, 2 pig, 2 rice, 1 deer, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 sugar, 1 wheat).

Player S2
Bismarck of Babylon
114 land tiles.
(89 grass, 21 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 35 forests, 11 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 26 hills.)
4520.6 total land quality.
39.65 average land quality.
257.0 total food potential.
2.25 food per non-ocean tile.
134.0 total hammer potential.
1.18 hammers per non-ocean tile.
158.5 total commerce potential.
0 coastal tiles.
0 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (1 marble, 1 iron, 1 oil, 1 horse, 1 uranium, 1 coal, 1 ivory, 1 stone, 2 copper, 1 aluminum).
6 happy resources (1 gold, 1 gems, 1 ivory, 2 spices, 1 sugar).
13 food resources (1 deer, 2 cow, 2 pig, 2 corn, 1 rice, 2 wheat, 1 banana, 1 sheep, 1 sugar).
15 health resources (1 deer, 2 cow, 2 pig, 2 corn, 1 rice, 2 wheat, 1 banana, 1 sheep, 2 spices, 1 sugar).

Player S3
Hammurabi of Rome
114 land tiles.
(89 grass, 21 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 35 forests, 11 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 26 hills.)
4493.8 total land quality.
39.42 average land quality.
264.0 total food potential.
2.32 food per non-ocean tile.
136.0 total hammer potential.
1.19 hammers per non-ocean tile.
136.5 total commerce potential.
0 coastal tiles.
0 ocean tiles.

11 strategic resources (2 copper, 1 oil, 1 marble, 1 uranium, 1 horse, 1 aluminum, 1 ivory, 1 iron, 1 coal, 1 stone).
6 happy resources (1 gold, 2 incense, 1 ivory, 1 gems, 1 sugar).
13 food resources (2 rice, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 banana).
13 health resources (2 rice, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 banana).

Balance checker with water (includes astro islands though)

Total map unfairness (standard deviation in weighted land quality): 306

Player S4
Augustus of Korea
133 land tiles.
(105 grass, 24 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 39 forests, 19 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 29 hills.)
15551.1 total land quality.
67.32 average land quality.
644.5 total food potential.
2.79 food per non-ocean tile.
158.0 total hammer potential.
0.68 hammers per non-ocean tile.
487.0 total commerce potential.
98 coastal tiles.
114 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (2 oil, 2 iron, 2 horse, 1 ivory, 2 copper, 1 uranium, 1 coal, 1 marble, 1 stone, 1 aluminum).
11 happy resources (1 dye, 1 wine, 2 silk, 1 ivory, 1 sugar, 1 fur, 1 gems, 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 whale).
22 food resources (2 crab, 4 fish, 2 clam, 2 rice, 1 sugar, 2 pig, 1 sheep, 2 corn, 1 banana, 2 cow, 1 wheat, 1 deer, 1 whale).
22 health resources (2 crab, 4 fish, 2 clam, 1 wine, 2 rice, 1 sugar, 2 pig, 1 sheep, 2 corn, 1 banana, 2 cow, 1 wheat, 1 deer).


Player S5
Julius_caesar of Spain
137 land tiles.
(108 grass, 25 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 40 forests, 18 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 29 hills.)
15768.3 total land quality.
72.00 average land quality.
551.0 total food potential.
2.52 food per non-ocean tile.
160.0 total hammer potential.
0.73 hammers per non-ocean tile.
442.5 total commerce potential.
82 coastal tiles.
68 ocean tiles.

15 strategic resources (3 oil, 2 horse, 2 iron, 1 aluminum, 1 stone, 2 copper, 1 ivory, 1 uranium, 1 coal, 1 marble).
10 happy resources (1 whale, 1 fur, 1 wine, 2 spices, 1 ivory, 1 gold, 1 sugar, 1 gems, 1 silver).
23 food resources (1 whale, 2 banana, 3 clam, 3 fish, 2 crab, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 corn, 2 rice, 1 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 sheep).
25 health resources (2 banana, 3 clam, 3 fish, 2 crab, 1 wine, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 2 spices, 2 corn, 2 rice, 1 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 sheep).

Player S1
Washington of Sumeria
137 land tiles.
(109 grass, 24 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 41 forests, 17 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 30 hills.)
15768.2 total land quality.
71.67 average land quality.
573.0 total food potential.
2.60 food per non-ocean tile.
161.0 total hammer potential.
0.73 hammers per non-ocean tile.
455.0 total commerce potential.
83 coastal tiles.
81 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (1 stone, 2 iron, 1 aluminum, 2 horse, 2 copper, 1 ivory, 1 uranium, 1 marble, 1 coal, 2 oil).
11 happy resources (2 whale, 1 gold, 2 fur, 2 silk, 1 gems, 1 ivory, 1 sugar, 1 wine).
24 food resources (3 pig, 2 whale, 2 cow, 1 banana, 3 clam, 3 fish, 2 rice, 1 deer, 2 crab, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 sugar, 1 wheat).
23 health resources (3 pig, 2 cow, 1 banana, 3 clam, 3 fish, 2 rice, 1 deer, 2 crab, 2 corn, 1 sheep, 1 sugar, 1 wheat, 1 wine).



Player S2
Bismarck of Babylon
137 land tiles.
(108 grass, 24 plains, 5 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 39 forests, 19 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 29 hills.)
15978.3 total land quality.
70.39 average land quality.
607.0 total food potential.
2.67 food per non-ocean tile.
158.0 total hammer potential.
0.70 hammers per non-ocean tile.
466.5 total commerce potential.
90 coastal tiles.
88 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (1 marble, 2 iron, 2 oil, 2 horse, 1 uranium, 1 coal, 1 ivory, 1 stone, 2 copper, 1 aluminum).
12 happy resources (1 incense, 1 whale, 1 silver, 1 gold, 1 gems, 1 ivory, 2 spices, 1 sugar, 1 fur, 1 dye, 1 wine).
25 food resources (1 whale, 3 clam, 4 fish, 1 deer, 2 cow, 2 pig, 3 corn, 1 rice, 2 wheat, 2 banana, 2 crab, 1 sheep, 1 sugar).
27 health resources (3 clam, 4 fish, 1 deer, 2 cow, 2 pig, 3 corn, 1 rice, 2 wheat, 2 banana, 2 crab, 1 sheep, 2 spices, 1 sugar, 1 wine).


Player S3
Hammurabi of Rome
128 land tiles.
(100 grass, 24 plains, 4 deserts, 0 tundra, 0 snow. 39 forests, 14 jungles, 4 flood plains, 0 oasis. 27 hills.)
15824.1 total land quality.
72.92 average land quality.
632.5 total food potential.
2.91 food per non-ocean tile.
154.0 total hammer potential.
0.71 hammers per non-ocean tile.
471.0 total commerce potential.
89 coastal tiles.
123 ocean tiles.

14 strategic resources (2 copper, 2 oil, 1 marble, 1 uranium, 2 iron, 2 horse, 1 aluminum, 1 ivory, 1 coal, 1 stone).
10 happy resources (2 silver, 1 wine, 1 gold, 2 incense, 1 ivory, 1 gems, 1 sugar, 1 fur).
20 food resources (2 crab, 2 rice, 2 pig, 1 wheat, 3 fish, 2 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 corn, 2 clam, 1 sheep, 1 banana).
21 health resources (2 crab, 2 rice, 2 pig, 1 wine, 1 wheat, 3 fish, 2 cow, 1 sugar, 1 deer, 2 corn, 2 clam, 1 sheep, 1 banana).

How'd I do?

[Lewwyn]

Here's the current WBSave. I added txt to the extension so I could attach it. To load it just delete the .txt.

[Lewwyn]

I'm thinking I want to take 48 hours for comments and changes to the base continent. Then Thursday I'll string and work on the final whole. Post the wb and some screens on Friday. Saturday Finalize. Sunday get it out for production. Start the game on Monday March 1st.

How's that sound?

[Thoth]

1st impression: WOW that's a lot of land per player.

[Lewwyn]

1st impression:  WOW that's a lot of land per player.

Hmm you think? Too much? I was counting tiles per player as uncontested tiles. So like astro islands, the center island and contested islands I wasn't really counting in the per player equation.

If it's too much I could cut the 1 tile from the cap islands, cut out the 3 tile islands with the jungle/horse, shave 2-3 tiles from each backline.

[Thoth]

Go with what the players asked for. It looks like a lot to me, 200 tiles/player?, but if that's what they asked for then give it to them.

S4 can get both copper and horses on the inner ring of one city. None of the other starts can do this. Maybe move the copper 1 or 2 tiles West (4)?

Other than that, it looks good to me.

[Lewwyn]

Go with what the players asked for.  It looks like a lot to me, 200 tiles/player?, but if that's what they asked for then give it to them. 

S4 can get both copper and horses on the inner ring of one city.  None of the other starts can do this.  Maybe move the copper 1 or 2 tiles West (4)?

Other than that, it looks good to me.

Oh, no the capitals are 14 tiles apart. Mainland sections give 114 tiles each. Safe islands give another 8 so 122 each, contested islands are 30 tiles total so like 128 if they settle evenly, then Astro islands bump it up to about 135 per player. So about 120 per player that is “theirs” and the another 15 per player that is contested.

[Lewwyn]

Oh did you see the 114 and then the 89 grass and 21 plains and add them up? The 89+21+4FP make up the 114. I just was explaining how everyone has the same tile composition overall.

[Old Harry]

It's a lush map, which may speed up tech somewhat so I'm glad it'll be Huge.

Having pinch points kinda sets the expected borders and might be a little boring, but I think the islands counter that nicely

No dye or silk means cha isn't totally worthless, but you might want to take one of the ancient luxuries out as well (fur, ivory or whale as the metals can pop from a mine and unbalance things anyway). Actually I like the scarce whales, keep them.

It's a nice map, I don't know what the players are going to find to bitch about... Possibly that X got an easy continent to conquer while they're stuck with hard neighbors. Where X is Mack or TBS.

I'm a little worried that the layout of the string of islands will favour or hurt those with easy access to neighbouring continents, have you got a plan for that?

[Old Harry]

One thing - the two southern pinch points only need one fort/city to move navies from inner to outer sea. The others need two. And S4 can canal through the capital (although who puts a fort in their capital?)

Oh and there is a river at S3 that's the wrong way around.