[SPOILER]PB58 - Mr. Cairo residing over the remains of Serdoas Library of Knowledge

[civac2]

I'd argue it's working as intended.  The wonder obsoletes, the effect- monument in every city - goes poof. Imagine your Stonehenge city getting conquered, would you expect to keep the monuments in your other cities?

[Charriu]

I think it is debatable. Normally if a building of any kind obsoletes it doesn't vanish and still provides culture. I remember that before I knew about this effect of Stonehenge obsoleting, I always assumed that the monuments just stay in the city just like a regular obsoleted monument.
Then again conquering and losing Stonehenge like Miguelito described is an issue too.

[Mr. Cairo]

But am I right that you haven't researched Astronomy so far? When do you expect to research that?

No, I have researched Astro, which obsoletes Stonehenge, which is when I noticed I can suddenly build Steles in all my cities.

[NobleHelium]

If you want to change the interaction between monuments and Stonehenge then the only change I would make is to make it so that you can build monuments (and steles etc.) while owning Stonehenge. Then any monuments that you manually build would remain after Stonehenge obsoletes (and they would get the normal culture doubling), so that you can choose to build them in cities where you want to retain the buildings after they obsolete. I would imagine that change would be difficult if not impossible to do though.

If you posted this topic in the CtH thread I would find it very hard to believe that the majority would think it's reasonable and correct for the Stonehenge monuments to remain after the wonder obsoletes. As far as I know this is the first time in twenty years that anyone on RB has ever brought up the idea that it's unreasonable for the monuments to disappear. I want to stress again that making them not disappear is basically the same as making the wonder not obsolete. How many cities are you going to build after researching Astronomy?? Come on now.

Also Stonehenge obsoleting doesn't make it vanish or stop providing culture. It still provides its normal 8 culture (and doubling) plus GPP. The effect of the wonder is to provide monuments in every city, and the effect of the wonder is what goes away, same as every other wonder. The behavior of Stonehenge going obsolete is entirely consistent with the rest of the game and all other wonders going obsolete.

[Charriu]

But am I right that you haven't researched Astronomy so far? When do you expect to research that?

No, I have researched Astro, which obsoletes Stonehenge, which is when I noticed I can suddenly build Steles in all my cities.

Thanks. Well good that you can still build Steles. At least that way nothing is broken. Regarding Stonehenge removing its monument: The arguments you people brought for are convincing. Especially what Miguelito wrote is just one example were my "fix" would have consequences that I did not immediately see at first. So I won't change the behavior, which unfortunately for you Mr. Cairo means you lose out on those Steles for now until you build them again.

[Mr. Cairo]

If you want to change the interaction between monuments and Stonehenge then the only change I would make is to make it so that you can build monuments (and steles etc.) while owning Stonehenge.  Then any monuments that you manually build would remain after Stonehenge obsoletes (and they would get the normal culture doubling), so that you can choose to build them in cities where you want to retain the buildings after they obsolete.  I would imagine that change would be difficult if not impossible to do though.

If you posted this topic in the CtH thread I would find it very hard to believe that the majority would think it's reasonable and correct for the Stonehenge monuments to remain after the wonder obsoletes.  As far as I know this is the first time in twenty years that anyone on RB has ever brought up the idea that it's unreasonable for the monuments to disappear.  I want to stress again that making them not disappear is basically the same as making the wonder not obsolete.  How many cities are you going to build after researching Astronomy?? Come on now.

Also Stonehenge obsoleting doesn't make it vanish or stop providing culture.  It still provides its normal 8 culture (and doubling) plus GPP.  The effect of the wonder is to provide monuments in every city, and the effect of the wonder is what goes away, same as every other wonder.  The behavior of Stonehenge going obsolete is entirely consistent with the rest of the game and all other wonders going obsolete.

Just want to say, at no point did I (or Charriu I think), say it was unreasonable for the monuments to disappear, I was just making a query based on incorrect assumptions. This is the first time I've had Stonehenge and a UB monument that doesn't obsolete at Astro.

[NobleHelium]

Okay. Charriu did say that it was "very stupid" which I rephrased as unreasonable.

Obsolete monuments (normally built ones) don't disappear by the way, you just can't build more of them. That is why I didn't think it mattered whether you had a UB monument or not in relation to your original statement.

[Mr. Cairo]

Okay.  Charriu did say that it was "very stupid" which I rephrased as unreasonable.

Obsolete monuments (normally built ones) don't disappear by the way, you just can't build more of them.  That is why I didn't think it mattered whether you had a UB monument or not in relation to your original statement.

I think that one of the changes to CtH (and RtR?) was that UBs don't obsolete. So under normal circumstances, once Stonehenge obsoletes nothing changes except there's no Monument in the building list, and who pays much attention to that? But with Steles not obsoleting, as soon as Stonehenge obsoleted, suddenly Steles appeared as an option to build, which was noticeable.

[NobleHelium]

I do pay attention to that.

[Mr. Cairo]

So I'm going to attack AT this turn. I've played after him lately, and he's played his turn, so no issues there. But Tarkeel, who has also been playing before me the last couple of turns, has played and done stuff (like taking an AT city), but not ended turn.

Should I keep waiting for hit to finish his turn? At some point we might end up going after the same cities so turn order will matter.

But I'm getting impatient.