[PB58] Tarkeel and Amicalola's rule through fear

[Charriu]

How much hammers would Mining add?

Interesting question actually, as there aren't that many strategic resources. I counted up what we have (or can reasonably expect to get) of the resources relevant for Mining Inc and Creative Construction.

• Gold: 2 in total in our land
  
• Silver: 3 in total; two from AT and one from Ruff
  
• Iron: 2 in total, both in our land and we're unlikely to get AT's iron but might get one from Ruff/Jowy
  
• Copper: 3 in total, two in our land and one from AT
  
• Stone: 6 in total; four on the spine and two on astro islands
  
• Marble: 3 in total, one in our land, one in AT's and one astro.
  
• Coal and Aluminum are unknown at this stage.
  

That leaves Mining Inc at six, possibly seven, plus whatever we get from coal. Creative Construction has more resources at ten (plus aluminum), but only gives half a hammer for each. Mining looks like the better corp, but it's not going to be game breaking.

Just wanted to mention this, but should you go for corporation, then please be very observant of anything strange. Remember this is the way to found and spread corps in CtH:

- To found a corporation you still need a great person
- You do get one executive for the corporation if you research the appropriate tech.
- Executives can only spread a corporation if it has been founded by anyone via a great person.

[Tarkeel]

How much hammers would Mining add?

Interesting question actually, as there aren't that many strategic resources. I counted up what we have (or can reasonably expect to get) of the resources relevant for Mining Inc and Creative Construction.

• Gold: 2 in total in our land
  
• Silver: 3 in total; two from AT and one from Ruff
  
• Iron: 2 in total, both in our land and we're unlikely to get AT's iron but might get one from Ruff/Jowy
  
• Copper: 3 in total, two in our land and one from AT
  
• Stone: 6 in total; four on the spine and two on astro islands
  
• Marble: 3 in total, one in our land, one in AT's and one astro.
  
• Coal and Aluminum are unknown at this stage.
  

That leaves Mining Inc at six, possibly seven, plus whatever we get from coal. Creative Construction has more resources at ten (plus aluminum), but only gives half a hammer for each. Mining looks like the better corp, but it's not going to be game breaking.

Just wanted to mention this, but should you go for corporation, then please be very observant of anything strange. Remember this is the way to found and spread corps in CtH:

- To found a corporation you still need a great person
- You do get one executive for the corporation if you research the appropriate tech.
- Executives can only spread a corporation if it has been founded by anyone via a great person.

Yep, I had a look at that in a sim earlier and got freaked out: it looks like corporation yields scale inverted to map size? I'll probably be posting more about corporations later on.

[Amicalola]

It's silly how 'correct' Roche (ex-Thog) looks now that it's incorporated into our territory. Much like Rahital would look if things were reversed and AT conquered us, I imagine. The settling pattern between us on that western spine was insane.

[Tarkeel]

It's silly how 'correct' Roche (ex-Thog) looks now that it's incorporated into our territory. Much like Rahital would look if things were reversed and AT conquered us, I imagine. The settling pattern between us on that western spine was insane.

Here's an old shot from T133, just after those cities were settled:


I still believe that if AT hadn't attacked us directly, he could instead use the threat of attack to claim the west, taking both the Sullust and Rahital sites. This would leave Ralltiir as the bulge and Kuat horribly exposed. We still might have founded Cloud City on the stone filler, but it would have been a less comfortable city. This would have the effect of cutting us off from vulturing Ruff as he went down.

[Tarkeel]

One of the things we've been discussing lately is corporations, or rather if we'd spend our great engineer on the three-person golden age or founding a corporation. We're also doing something patently absurd in Coruscant: Building the Hagia Sophie in 8 turns when we planned to research SteamPower in 6. We basically just want it for the GPP generation, and will research Economics in the meantime.

• Gold: 2 in total in our land
  
• Silver: 3 in total; two from AT and one from Ruff
  
• Iron: 2 in total, both in our land and we're unlikely to get AT's iron but might get one from Ruff/Jowy
  
• Copper: 3 in total, two in our land and one from AT
  
• Stone: 6 in total; four on the spine and two on astro islands
  
• Marble: 3 in total, one in our land, one in AT's and one astro.
  
• Coal and Aluminum are unknown at this stage.
  

Additionally there's a stone south of Orchidaceous that we can claim by settling on top of it. Assuming that Gall will claim Ruff's iron that will give us:

MiningInc: 0.75 * 7 = 5.25 (plus whatever we get from coal)
CreatCons: 0.5 * 11 = 5.5 (plus whatever we get from aluminum)

I expect us to get between 1 and 4 of both coal and aluminum, so it will be very close. We'll know more after SteamPower comes in. CreatCons gives us the option of running both AluminumCo and CivJewels beside it, if we ever have a surplus of great people (not likely).

• Fish: 9
  
• Crabs: 6 + 1?
  
• Clams: 5
  
• Rice: 3
  
• Wheat: 2
  
• Corn: 2
  

That includes the orphan crab on our coast, and the +1? is AT's orphan crab which will take some time to gain culture on. Assuming we hook up all, it gives us the following for the food corps:

Sid's Sushi: 0.25 * 18 = 4.5
Cereal Mils: 0.75 * 4 = 3

Even post-nerf Sid is clearly the best choice, but less game shattering. Another thing to consider is that we're running Mercantilism, and unless we plan to swap out of it, we're going to need to found any Corporations we want to benefit from. I think a large part of our comeback is the combination of Mercantilism and Representation. We're currently at 40 cities, which comes out to 120 free beakers (plus whatever the specialists do) when all cities come out of resistance.


Nobody else is running this combo; in fact Superdeath is the only one who can use Representation, and while everyone has Banking only MrCairo is using Mercantilism. Superdeath is actually running FreeMarket without any foreign trade routes.

[Amicalola]

I agree that our civics are a big part of our comeback - same as the monk wonders. If you take out either one, or certainly both, our tech lead probably doesn't exist, so I'm very glad we decided to go for both. We're currently making 350 beakers-per-turn at 0% science, and with SoL that should rise to 500.

Nobody else is running this combo; in fact Superdeath is the only one who can use Representation, and while everyone has Banking only MrCairo is using Mercantilism. Superdeath is actually running FreeMarket without any foreign trade routes.

Yeah, and not just that. From what I can tell, Superdeath is running FreeMarket without any foreign trade routes, while having researched banking ages ago and being in representation already. He could be the one with the tech lead!

[Tarkeel]

Turn 207 (1470 AD)
It's time to put an end to this war. Here's a preliminary look at the forces:


Our heavy hitters consists of 9 cavalry, 17 cuirassiers, 5 rifles and 5 muskets; for suiciding we have 10 catapults and a trebuchet; and for cleanup we have 4 maces and 13 ballistaphants. Standing strong against this onslaught is 8 grenadiers, 9 musketmen, 2 knights and 4 catapults. This is going to get bloody, but we should have enough to break through.

Assault on Roy
CR2 Catapult vs CG2 Grenadier, 0.1%: loss (3 rounds)
CR2 Catapult vs CG2 Grenadier, 0.1%: loss (3 rounds)
CR2 Trebuchet vs CG2 Grenadier, 4.3%: loss (9 rounds)
CR2 Catapult vs G1 D1 Grenadier (11.3), 1.0%: loss (5 rounds)
CR2 Catapult vs D1 Grenadier, 0.6%: loss (7 rounds)
CR2 Catapult vs G1 D1 Grenadier (9.8), 4.2%: loss (6 rounds)
B1 Acc Catapult vs CG1 Grenadier (11.3), 0.1%: loss (3 rounds)
At this point there are three high-strength grenadiers left, which cavalry will get decent odds on:
C2 Pinch Cavalry vs CG1 Grenadier (11.3), 72.1% + 8.4%: win!
C2 Pinch Cavalry vs CG1 Grenadier (11.3), 76.1% + 7.2%: loss
C2 Pinch Cavalry vs Grenadier (11.2), 78.7% + 6.4%: win!
C1 Pinch Cavalry vs CG2 Musket (7.7), 75.3% + 7.4%: win!
C1 Pinch Cavalry vs CG1 Grenadier (9.7), 85.9% + 4.2%: loss
C1 Pinch Cavalry vs CG1 Grenadier (9.8), 88.2% + 3.5%: win!
We've cleared the most dangerous defenders and the catapults have better odds, so we send those in next:
B1 Acc Catapult vs CG1 Musket (7.7), 4.3%: loss (4 rounds)
B1 Acc Catapult vs CG1 Musket (7.7), 4.3%: loss (6 rounds)
B1 Acc Catapult vs G1 D1 Grenadier (7.0), 13.3%: loss (3 rounds)
B1 Acc Catapult vs G1 D1 Grenadier (7.0), 13.3%: loss (5 rounds)
That went worse than I'd hoped for, but it's enough to get decent odds on the rest:
C1 Pinch Cavalry vs D1 Grenadier (7.7), 96.1% + 1.2%: win!
C1 Shock/Pinch Cavalry vs CG1 Musket (6.4), 98.7% + 0.4%: win!
C2 Pinch Cuirassier vs Musket (6.9), 96.2% + 0.6%: win!
C2 Pinch Cuirassier vs Musket (6.9), 96.2% + 0.6%: win!
C1 Pinch Cuirassier vs C1 Knight (7.8), 90.8% + 1.4%: win!
C2 Pinch Cuirassier vs CG1 Musket (5.7), 96.9% + 0.5%: win!
C1 Shock/Pinch Cuirassier vs CG1 Musket (5.5), 96.3% + 0.6%: loss
C2 Pinch Cuirassier vs Musket (6.3), 98.8% + 0.2%: win!
C1 Shock/Pinch Cuirassier vs C2 Knight (6.4), 96.8% + 0.5%: win!
C1 Shock Cuirassier vs C1 Medic Musket (5.7), 94.6% + 0.8%: win!
C1 Pinch Cuirassier vs Musket (5.7), 98.9% + 0.2%: win!
C3 Cuirassier vs G1 D1 Grenadier (4.3), 99.% + <0.1%: win!
C1 Shock/Pinch Cuirassier vs CG2 Grenadier (3.6), 98.6% + 0.2%: win!
At this point the battle is won, it's just a matter of deciding who gets XP:
CR2 Mace vs D1 Catapult, 99.5%: win!
CR1 Mace vs D1 Catapult, 98.7%: win!
CR1 Mace vs D1 Catapult, 98.7%: win!
C2 Ballistaphant vs CG1 Grenadier (3.4), 97.9%: win!
CR1 Mace vs Catapult, 99.0%: win!
C1 Pinch Ballistaphant vs CG1 Grenadier (2.2), 99.9%: win!
G2 Rifle vs CG1 Musket (1.5), >99.9%:
The city comes with 91g, granary, lighthouse, harbor, forge, observatory and grocer, as well as an academy and the Great Library. AT was also kind enough to not delete the workers, so we pick up 6 of them.

With peace forcibly secured and cultural pressure removed, we found Rendili on the north of the lake, and rename the remaining captures.

Rendili is one of the older colonies, home to Rendili StarDrive.

Vaarsuvious becomes known as Corellia, known for it's brilliant engineers and lustrous trade.

Elan becomes known as Chandrila, whose most famous native is the traitor Mon Mothma.

Roy becomes known as Bothawui, home of the shifty Bothans.


At this point I've actually run out of system cards to use for city names, so you'll have to make do with text:

• Orchidaceous becomes Bakura, where Imperial and Rebel forces joined cause against a common threat.
  
• Durkon becomes Sluis Van, another famous shipyard
  
• DemonRoaches becomes Dathomir, a forbidden prison world where rancors and forces witches roam
  
• Haley becomes Brentaal IV, an important trade planet
  
• Bloodfeast becomes Kamino, home to the cloners who created the grand army of the republic
  
• Rome becomes Kal'Shebbol, capital of the remote Kathol sector
  

Roy/Bothawui is the only city still in revolt, and our workers are busy changing improvements into mills. I'll try to get some overview shots up later. Probably the best news of the turn is that MrC's western stack has turned around and is heading home. We'll try to reciprocate and keep our defensive stack away from the border.

[Tarkeel]

A Retrospective on the 20-Turn War
This war has really shown how quick things can change in this game. In less than 30 turns we've gone from not having an army, to fully conquering our neighbor. It's time to take a look at lessons learned, but first a brief timeline:

• T181: Researched MilitaryTradition
  
• T182: Researched Gunpowder
  
• T187: Marauder squad assembles
  
• T188: Raze Belkar; besiege Thog/Roche, Nale/Kirdo III and Endor; Marauders threaten MitD and Vaarsuvious/Corellia
  
• T189: Raze MitD, capture Endor and Nale/Kirdo III (temporarily)
  
• T190: Capture Thog/Roche
  
• T192: Signal intercept from Jowy; Feint on Redcloak and Elan/Chandrila
  
• T194: Capture Nale/Kirdo III (permanently)
  
• T196: Lose Tatooine; Capture Miko/Tibrin and Durkon/Sluis Van; Superdeath declares on AT and Jowy
  
• T197: Capture Antium/Aquaris
  
• T198: Capture DemonRoaches/Dathomir; Found Yavin to replace Belkar; MrCairo declares on AT
  
• T199: Capture Vaarsuvious/Corellia
  
• T200: Capture Bloodfeast/Kamino and Haley/Brentaal IV
  
• T201: Capture Rome/Kal'Shebbol
  
• T202: Capture Orchidaceous/Bakura
  
• R203: Capture Elan/Chandrila and besiege Roy/Bothawui
  
• T206: Found Gall
  
• T207: Capture Roy/Bothawui and found Rendili
  

Lessons Learned
Some of this may sound trivial to the veterans, but I feel the need to write up my experiences:

• Shock-promoted cuirassiers made short work of medieval infantry
  
• Longbows were actually the most annoying defenders to face until grenaders showed up
  
• Pure musket-defender stacks were easier to clean out (due to pinch) than ones with even maces/praetorians mixed in
  
• Ballistaphants made for great stack defenders
  
• War weariness really sucks, but CtH colosseums are great and we should have built more of them sooner
  
• Using maneuver warfare felt effective in forcing AT to defend multiple locations, and not build up fortify bonus
  
• Having full city visibility/investigation made it much easier to dance around defenses
  
• You can never bring too much enough catapults/collateral
  

The Prizes
This island-chain lies north of our main continent and south of AT's, and just east of MrCairo, so it has great strategic significance:


We got most of AT's good cities, but we missed out on two important points: MrCairo got both the dye cities and Xykon as a canal to the southern sea. You can see part of our plans for a canal from Sullust to Chandrila in the overview:



The Army
Our army looks pretty decent after suffering through that war, especially as most of our horses are well promoted now.

• 11 cannons and 7 catapults
  
• 30 rifles and 18 muskets, mainly CG1 draftees
  
• 22 ballistaphants, some of which are worth upgrading if needed
  
• 19 cuirassiers and cavalry, promotions listed below
  
• 12 archers, 12 longbows, 3 crossbows, 4 warriors, 12 axes, 3 spears, 2 pikes for MP duty/stuffing islands
  
• 11 frigates and 4 galleons for main defense
  
• 10 caravels, 4 galleys and 3 triremes  for scouting/shuttling/secondary defense
  

19 cuirassiers:
1x C3 +1 (unpromoted)
2x C3 Pinch
1x C3
2x C2 Shock/Pinch
1x C2 Formation
5x C2 Pinch
5x C1 Shock/Pinch
1x C1 Pinch
1x Sentry

15 cavalry:
1x C3
1x C2 Shock/Pinch
3x C2 Amphib
6x C2 Pinch
1x C2
2x 5xp unpromoted
1x Sentry

For comparison, what we know of Jowy's army (which due to city visibility is almost complete):

• 31 cannons and 18 catapults
  
• 47 grenadiers and 4 muskets
  
• 53 knights
  
• 19 longbows, 12 pikes
  
• 7 ShipOfTheLine, 4 galleons, 1 caravel
  

[Charriu]

• War weariness really sucks, but CtH colosseums are great and we should have built more of them sooner
  

Good to hear.

[Tarkeel]

Turn 208 (1480 AD)
Our war weariness is finally gone and it feels great to have our cities back to normal. A quick comparison of demographics taken just before the fall of Roy/Bothawui and the end of this turn shows a marked improvement:




That's roughly a gain of 200 GNP (almost all of it research/gold), 80 food and 30 hammers. Our workers are busy re-sculpting the new lands, we've got most of the cities set up with hinduism, and probably should be building more catapults cannons but are sneaking in some infrastructure.

The plan right now is to hunker down and out-develop the rest of the field. We're going Corporation before SteamPower to allow Coruscant time to finish Hagia Sophia, and then it's AssemblyLine and cheap factories. We still have to decide if we're using the engineer on MinInc or a golden age to build infrastructure in.