[Mjmd #60] Why even buy toys for kids?

[Commodore]

Should I be nice to SD short term or not? It helps me too. I'm leaning yes with the caveat that as soon as I establish another trade route its gone.

But without knowing the details of the game I feel like I might as well be commenting on which verse of Chinese poetry sounds better

Superdeath and Chinese poetry go together though:
天生萬物以養人
人無一善以報天
殺殺殺殺殺殺殺
Heaven brings forth innumerable things to nurture man.
Man has nothing good with which to recompense Heaven.
Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill.

[El Grillo]

Now that’s a reference I was not expecting to see today :D

I love reading superdeath’s threads, but it can be tough being in his games.

[Mjmd]

T72

AMICA COULD YOU HAVE WAITED 1 turn!!!! Amica landed GLH the literal turn I was about to start building for fail gold. I really really really could have used even 1 turn worth of fail gold.........

I decided to do AH then pottery. It just makes sense worker wise I'm trying to do ANOTHER barely scrap in there tech in 2 turns so workers can start improving sheep down south. Also, if mirrored like SD a horse up north. I don't have enough for a full 100% so I literally ran math on the best percent to tech that loses least to rounding and still might get me there (70%). I finish quarry next turn, 3 cities grow and can work commerce tiles, and for the very little it matters my 1st monastery finishes.

I then will have to tech pottery as well sometime in the 5 turns after that, because Oracle should be in 7 turns counting this turn. Pottery is a cheaper tech, but still...... Do I dare 2 pop whip sand and whip off of 4 commerce worth of tiles? I was going to 5 turn a settler out of Boxes, but decided to do a barracks so it would grow in 5 turns, because I might bloody need the extra commerce worked for 2 turns..... I will have the extra gold from the sheep and hopefully horse, so that isn't nothing. If I end up being able to get pottery faster, I can temporarily work 2 plains forests for a turn and get Oracle a turn faster. Will have to see if it makes sense food wise for Rocks and whipping of the forge and obviously if I can tech pottery in time.


Other international news is that Lazteuq jumped up to 8 cities a couple turns ago. Amica is about to settle a city where Rocks is for me, which should give trade to Amica. Trusting sort, no escort, but alas I only have a scout.

In other annoying news my capital decided to work that plains mine T69 as seen in picture. This time I didn't catch it though, so it will grow 1 turn slower, which will delay a worker 1 turn.

Edit: I should note that letting Boxes grow will also let it 2 pop whip a forge. Again I'm trying to curtail my instinct to settle as many cities as possible.

[Mjmd]

T73

Ok so it was much easier to finish AH than I thought it would be. That is good because I did bad Oracle math and I'm sped up by a turn from what I thought. Oracle in 5. Which means I need pottery in 4 starting next turn. Decision to whip Sand tbd. Still whipping capital for worker, because I want to start improving that cow...... finally. I may let sand grow 1 turn and then decide. Will be a more efficient whip that way anyways (Thrawn with no granary the more efficient way to whip is to grow to half food box and then whip, mind you also have to balance out whip timer and what that whip is for. Like this city has no whip timer and worker could be improving stone, so normally I wouldn't care about food box especially as city has descent food).

Don't think I mentioned but Judiasm landed last turn. 2 people know writing (I also realized I get 3 prereq bonus for writing for first time since who knows how long ago in single player). I also forgot to mention one person knows archery. Normally I would say early horse archers but unless its Amica who just built GLH (ie unlikely) known of the others are showing power spike I guess I'll know next turn. Seems like a wasted tech otherwise.

[Mjmd]

T75 (&76 but all pictures from T75).

Empire Overview:



Not sure why borders don't show (thought they were in when I took the pic, but SD settled the bloody whale city to threaten Sand. This is why you 0% believe fish for fish with SD. He could have settled the exact same spot which has WAY more food and growth potential, but instead he goes for the aggressive spot. You can see my planned dot map. I may also have an aggressive plant in mind.

Oracle ended up being a turn faster than planned again, but luckily can still get Pottery in time. Not sure where I messed up math, but shrug. I also decided to whip worker in Sand before I knew all this, but luckily not even close to mattering (I mean its kind of close just not THAT close). To note Boxes changed from workboat T76. I've decided to settle the pig / fish city next and needed a workboat from somewhere, but don't want to pay for it until I need.

Demos: #1 in GNP...... well turns out all those prereq and ktbs are good for something.


Graphs: Food is really close. Note for Thrawn. About this time in any civ4 game either you or someone else forgets to change EPs around. So someone ends up too much against someone. Amica is currently has too many vs me..... so it will be a sec for Amica info.


General thoughts next post.

[Mjmd]

T75 Macro game thoughts:
Pretty even game. Everyone is relatively close to each other. Not exact order, but loosely how I think people are doing:
Jowy - early sailing to turn on org lighthouses to turn on financial made for a nice bumb in GNP. NEEDS more cities. 4 is just a pathetic number on turn 75 even on emperor. Great long term econ potential. Just has to not die to Rome.
Amica - landed GLH. Has excelent traits for the map. No clue how many cities, so unsure if keeping up with expansion, but not under same pressures to do so as say Jowy.
Lazteuq - 9 cities turn 75 is about right for emperor probably. In past monarch games I've done some turn 75 city count analysis and this would be average (Imp in monarch could have as many as 10, but wouldn't expect less than 8). Wonder if they also wanted GLH. Someone else researched masonry, which gives my mids build a bit of urgency as I think I do want it but don't want people farming a boat load of fail gold. In any case really still wondering what the plan with spiritual is and how they are going to function long term.
GKC - picked aggressive Rome and map turned out to be a little bit larger / longer than he probably wanted. Creative was a good pickup and aggressive is at least a little bit of an economic trait. Still needs to make something happen with it. The map shape seems to heavily indicate attacking your neighbor on inland sea, but because of double neighbor as mentioned, but also being facilitating troop movement faster via galleys.
SD - got even more screwed by map being longer rush distance than GKC. Obviously still has creative trait on this map, so not nothing. See bloody ocean tiles that were probably meant to be cute, but in reality are just stupid. Its one thing for creative to be just nuts for city placement, but also strategic.......

ME - order unknown. Really depends on if I land wonders I want. Oracle should be a lock unless someone immediately teched it after me, which would have been a huge gamble by them. Metal Casting is expensive so I am hopeful. If I do I will be 'in it' at least. I'm already trying to figure out expansion / when getting to currency and where vs granaries / forges. Being imperialistic I'm not feeling too bad being on 6 cities atm. But for instance capital probably won't do another settler and it has been main settler pump. I want both granary and forge in it to help accelerate Pyramids (if I had known I wasn't going to even get a few turns of GLH fail gold I probably would have started in Boxes). Rocks wants to be producing Temple of Artimis and has a forge and collossus to build first. That leaves just 4 cities to expand with and two of those are newer. Also, have to figure out where to expand. Also, could probably use a few more workers. I have 6 for 6 cities, maybe its fine. I'm India after all, one of the advantages is running light on workers.

City plans. Already touched on a few, but this is mostly for my own thinking:
Parents - I think forge and then granary? Not having to spend growth turns whipping I should be able to get both pretty fast. I think I want mids, but failgold wouldn't be the worst. Obviously no forests left soooo go go hard mode.
Water - settler for pig fish. How many missionaries vs how much military? If I want that push city I need some military, but that city also needs a missionary....... Luckily city has pretty good production thanks to the copper and regrows fast.
Rocks - Forge > Colossus > Temple of Artemis for a fast great person. Prophet for shrine would be sweet. Great Merchant for bulbing currency also gas. No I haven't done math on great person timing. Have I mentioned I plan on making this my national epic city? I'm not sure if this city gets whipped much after the forge. Unsure if I will cottage over 1 of the floodplain farms, but will keep 2 even with the fish going.
Boxes - Granary then build forge while 2 pop whipping from 6 > 4 for settlers. I'm tempted to do a settler next instead of granary and just use as a pure settler pump for a sec. I need alt push settler and then if I get colossus I would actually like to settle filler north of capital both for working inland sea but also to start growing a cottage or two.

Sand - Would love to whip literally any building, but I need settlers from somewhere........ I think Boxes takes that job and I try to get Sand up and running though. Would love a free spread the most of anywhere just for the sheep (and to start culture fight).
Sticks - needs to whip its own work boat. Then probably a trireme to defend said work boat. Note I switched prod from axe (good to have safety whips in queue) back to work boat, so very possible I two pop whip a trireme overflow into work boat.

[Mjmd]

T76 - 79

Turns be flying. Got Oracle. SD settled other island city on stone (interesting choice). I've fallen behind in food and cities, but part of that is I just whipped 2 settlers. SD production has skyrocketed. Amica GNP has skyrocketed. I just whipped forge T79. 4 chops coming in next two turns, then workers got other things to do. I actually messed up and did gold for silver trade with Lazteuq, but I should have waited until I could cancel with SD / had a trireme out for SD. Mental fart x2. Someone has Iron Working and GKC  has open borders with Jowy. Open borders is usually a signal that you aren't attacking that person. I asked GKC for open borders even though I gain nothing atm.

[Ramkhamhaeng]

Open borders is usually a signal that you aren't attacking that person.

I would say it is also used to scout city positions out and to lull players into a false sense of security.

[Charriu]

Also without open border no foreign trade income.

[Mjmd]

I actually did an extensive talk about open borders in PB56 after eliminating Vanrober. I also exchanged some PMs. If you think you can trick someone, go for it. Its hard though. I tried that route in PB54 and got caught by 1 turn...... Now scouting them out super early I understand, but always awkward to break off.

Foreign trade routes can be easily garnered from other players you don't plan on invading. Also people who you are more likely to work with defeating a neighbor.

Anyways, will post pictures next turn, but Oracle will be completing T82. I could have 1 turned it if I had had 4 workers, but alas.