[PB 61 - Spoilers] rekenner stands the Test of Time. ... Hopefully.

[rekenner]

Sorry, I think my first post may have been a bit rambly and wasn't entirely clear. I am somewhat interested in PHI, but it wasn't really my forerunner thought. Especially now that I see I have second pick, I think my Plan A is actually Cathy. Imperialistic: The best trait that wasn't nerfed. Creative: The best ... trait that wasn't nerfed. Okay - it got nerfed, but the nerf feels like it was more because of the Colosseum buff, even tho that's a small buff. It's a slap on the wrist.

If she's taken first, I think that really pushes me hard into a different IMP leader - I don't have a lot of info to base my pick on at that point, but I do know that I'll have to deal with someone else also thinking they want to REX hard. Maybe even IMP/CHA, with CHA being a way for my cities to somewhat compete with an IMP/CRE leaders cities. But if Cathy is taken, I think it'll be more based on terrain. And some sets of terrain *could* kick me off Cathy, but she's my favorite without seeing that.

Ideally it's Cathy of China, but I don't think there's any way that happens with 13th pick (Okay, the *absurdly* greedy line would be take China first and hope Cathy wheels. I don't think that's reasonable either). I think the ideal start for her would be an Agriculture/Mining set of terrain. Click the Bronze Working button, chopchopchop. With that style of terrain, without China, I think my second choice would be Sumeria. Vultures are.... a bit painful, but I love me some Ziggurats.

With, eg, IMP/CHA, I think my in-the-blind choices would then be India or Inca, though Arabia or Byzantium would be worth thinking about, given the reduced cost of Agriculture. Charismatic Cataphracts could be fun, tho not a game style I tend to want to lean into... but probably one I need to be better at leaning into for Civ4 MP.

Sumeria would probably be my #1 for a start that leads me towards FIN/IMP (because that start would be a start that wants a faster pottery anyway).

And in this, I have been looking over the stats. I may be overrating Sumeria a bit. But also, I see that Khmer is actually the most picked. I feel like I'm a bit missing out on why that is.

[El Grillo]

Khmer Ballista Elephants were nerfed from 8 to 7 base strength part way through the mod’s life here, I don’t think it has been a common pick since then.

When it comes to picks, there’s often discussion about front loading all your bonuses or spreading them out over the game, it’s fun to hear what new to MP players think about it.

[rekenner]

Aha! That would explain it. Thanks.

And, for a 7 player game pangaea, I think front loading bonuses makes sense, the more and more I think about it. My logic being that I'll be sharing borders, in all likelihood, with all or almost all of my neighbors. I can directly affect everyone's game And, as a corollary, everyone can affect my game. A strong start can lead to a dogpile... but I feel like a weak start is much more likely to lead to a fast exit.

That and the best lategame trait has been nerfed. It's harder to play a heads-down game and come out with a lead.

[Miguelito]

Cathy is fine, if you want to go all in early . Might make up for the lack of economy with a wonder paid for with hammers saved on expansion, or just more cottages than usual.

Fin still has pretty much the same late game, it's just mostly useless early.

I think Agri/Mining is less relevant due to the Agri cost reduction. Mining is still a factor for fast BW of course, but pairing it with hunting or fishing may achieve the same, depending on what the starting screenie tells us of course.

[Tarkeel]

Rekenner, here is your starting location. Beware of the danger of gazing into the fog, anything outside of the BFC of where you settler is can possibly change before the map is finalized.

[Sullla]

I would definitely pick whatever leader you want over a civilization with this start. All that you need to make the start work is Hunting tech and there are tons of civs that start with that. Fishing tech feels like a low priority with only a single 4 food crab tile at the capital and Agriculture isn't needed at all. Hunting/Mining civs (Ethiopia, Germany, Khmer, Russia) that open with early Bronze Working research could be excellent, or you could really throw the field for a loop and start with Hunting/Mysticism (Aztecs, Celts, Holy Rome) and open with a religion since Hunting is the only worker tech needed for the initial turns. But take the leader you want first and then you should be fine to get a decent civ on the return swing.

* Note that this advice may be terrible depending on what this mod has done to the early gameplay, I'm not familiar with all of the changes.

[Tarkeel]

The main change you might have missed is that cities can build workboats (but not work water tiles) without fishing.

[rekenner]

It's funny, I had made a meme with the Seagulls from Finding Nemo with "Map screenshots? Map screenshots? Map screenshots? Map screenshots?" on it, with the intent to post that when I got home from getting my oil changed and car inspected this morning, and then.... it was already there! Awesome.

(Thoughts to come.)

[rekenner]

Some initial questions, then it's time for me to drive to work. (I should have claimed a couple extra posts at the start of this thread. Oops. I'll still edit it to include this and some other things. But I work 2nd shift on EST, so I work from 2 PM to 10 PM. But I can read/write forum posts during downtime most days. Depends on how busy things are.)

I've never really fiddled with the WB before, so it'll be a learning experience for all involved! I've attached a WB file with the start. (EDIT: I was going to, but I can't, due to file type? Ah. Hm. Do I have to host it somewhere? I tried zipping it, but the forum software is too smart for that. =P)

I've got some questions about the terrain - I think the two forests that are two E of the start are Plains Forest and the forest directly E of the start is a Grassland Hill Forest. (Edit: on closer inspection, maybe those are all grassland hills? The color depth on one of my monitors is worse than the other, hah.)

The screenshot has the two water tiles south of the Settler as 1F tiles (With the Crabs making the one immediately south 2F2C)? Which would make them Ocean Tiles? Is that correct? It seems... odd for those to just be Ocean tiles? I have them as Coast in the attached WB, but I can change that with correction from Tarkeel.

Finally, I don't understand the Deer that's SE of the start spot. That looks like it's a Grassland Deer, but the tile yield is showing 3F1H? Plains Deer should be 2F1H, as well. Also when I do the WB for it, it's got the 1 riverside commerce, but I'm willing to chalk that up to me not being experienced in WB + the river placing being awkward.

[civac2]

No, the water tiles south of the are coast tiles which are 102 without a lighthouse. All three forests in the east are grasland hill forests. The deer is also on a forest. That's why it has an extra hammer and no commerce.