[PB 61 - Spoilers] rekenner stands the Test of Time. ... Hopefully.

[rekenner]

.... oh, duh, I'm a moron. Right. I accidentally made those Lake tiles because I hemmed in the area with mountains, to help me make sure I get the geography right... Woops. Of course.

Okay, that all makes sense. (I've never thought civ4 tiles looked terribly clear, I just always go by what the hover text says.)

[Tarkeel]

I've never really fiddled with the WB before, so it'll be a learning experience for all involved! I've attached a WB file with the start. (EDIT: I was going to, but I can't, due to file type? Ah. Hm. Do I have to host it somewhere? I tried zipping it, but the forum software is too smart for that. =P)

Zipping it works fine for me, are you sure you selected the correct file?

Civac covered the others I think. It's not always easy seeing what the tile is, which is why I like to show yields on starts.

[rekenner]

Oh, the forum software just doesn't like specifically 7z files. ... sure, fine. I'm just running into all sorts of silly/easy hazards today. Actual .zip is probably better to use anyway.

How do I WB a forest/deer tile? If I try to put forest onto a deer, it overwrites the deer, and I can't put a deer onto a Grasslands Forest (Grasslands Forest Deer is something that can't normally spawn, right?)

[civac2]

I don't understand the WB problem. I can put both of them on one tile without any issues.

No idea if it can spawn naturally.

[rekenner]

Huh. Graphical bug. It stopped showing the deer on the tile and the deer resource marker once I placed the forest, but when I exit WB, it hovers as a Grassland Forest Deer.

[Miguelito]

I would definitely pick whatever leader you want over a civilization with this start. All that you need to make the start work is Hunting tech and there are tons of civs that start with that. Fishing tech feels like a low priority with only a single 4 food crab tile at the capital and Agriculture isn't needed at all. Hunting/Mining civs (Ethiopia, Germany, Khmer, Russia) that open with early Bronze Working research could be excellent, or you could really throw the field for a loop and start with Hunting/Mysticism (Aztecs, Celts, Holy Rome) and open with a religion since Hunting is the only worker tech needed for the initial turns. But take the leader you want first and then you should be fine to get a decent civ on the return swing.

* Note that this advice may be terrible depending on what this mod has done to the early gameplay, I'm not familiar with all of the changes. 

I'll just add that not even hunting is required, as it can easily be researched before the worker. Unless you somehow want to start on BW right away, but I don't think so? (although early BW is of course very important for Imp)
Hunting is also one of the cheap pair, together with Agri. I agree that there is no hurry for the crab.
I think even Byzantium / Arabia should work without much issue (I haven't run numbers). I find Aztecs always a very interesting civ. Germany is playable in CtH, but we expect this game to be decided before grenadiers show up. Holy Rome might just be what Cathy needs after wrecking her economy expanding, and for a long term economic advantage.

[Sullla]

Since it looks like you haven't picked yet and every leader is on the table after JackRB took the Khmer, I'll throw out that Victoria wouldn't be a bad option either. Any time that I see a starting position with this many grassland river tiles, I immediately start thinking of a Financial leader. Obviously this isn't unmodded Civ4 where Financial would be unbelievably strong for this start but you do get the bonus commerce back after 10 turns of working a riverside cottage. Again, you should play whatever leader seems most interesting to you, I just had to throw this thought out there after seeing that many green riverside tiles in the starting screenshot.

[rekenner]

First: Thanks again, Civac and Tarkeel for dealing with my bumbling yesterday.

I had a super busy couple of days at work, though this screenshot has been running through the back of my mind.

So, I had thought about taking Vicky before I saw that post, Sullla, but I honestly don't have the confidence in myself to not go all-in early game. It certainly is a very good FIN start. I'm just more confident in myself being able to play after an excellent landgrab phase. Hence deciding to go with Cathy. I know what to expect from Civ4 SP, but this almost feels like an entirely new game that I'm playing. (Even ignoring that it's technically CtH, but, whatever. =P)

So, in terms of Civs. Khmer wasn't even really on my radar, so that's a bit of a relief (They're Hunting/Mining, but the UU/UB don't interest me). But, I've been APing on this in the back of my mind, because I think almost every tech combo works. Which, Tarkeel, I have to hand it to you on that start - it's a fabulous start in that regards. You threw me for a loop.

India and HRE are my frontrunners. Hunting and Mining are about as valuable as each other (in that I'll probably research the one of the two that I don't have first) and this start is so easy on tech, I think I want to go for Myst unless a lot of the rest of the field has gone for it, I don't want to get into that fight, if it's already crowded. India is a lot less likely, but HRE should be pretty safe? Maybe I go HRE even if I don't think I can take a religion, Rat Houses are that damn good. (I'm going to call them Rat Houses and Land Snakes and you can't stop me! Okay, maybe you can.)

Then the question is, if there's a lot of Myst leaders taken, where do I go? My oddball idea - and I realize this is being a bit too cute, but I'll write it out - might be Vikings. Fishing *might* be the better path to Pottery, depending on the area around the capital. I know I'm on the coast, so I get at least 2 good Trading Post cities. Though, this is probably a true Pangaea without offshore islands (based on what's been said about the map so far in the tech thread), so that benefit is mostly in getting to circumnav faster + better naval footsies, but those aren't as important.

So, okay, now that we get cute ideas out of the way... Honestly, nothing is jumping out at me, weirdly? Sure, Russia, Germany, Ethiopia are playable. Mali or Mongolia are doable, with how easy on tech this start is. Getting Wheel out of the way makes for faster Pottery. Ethiopia, draft us some Oromo Warriors? (Actually! Miguelito, how bad does 2 pop drafting for Rifles feel? On paper, it's definitely a much, much worse rate, but I haven't played CtH to that far in, yet.) Mali, take advantage of cheaper Metal Casting? Aaah... hm. Oddly, I might be leaning Mali or Russia out of this? My plan C here is definitely the thing I have the least strong feelings about, but mostly because it seems like a pretty flat set of options.

I'll try to get some tech path tests in tomorrow afternoon though, to make sure this is as liberal of a tech path as we're thinking it is.

[Tarkeel]

Note that circumnavigation is tied to optics in this mod.

We drafted hard in 58, and felt more limited by happy than pop. That was a large map though.

[Miguelito]

PB54 ended before rifles were even close, so I can't provide insight there, but if it helps Oromos are muskets actually

I would also expect this game to be decided by the middle ages. Meaning that with Russia, you may end up without using any of your uniques. I support the HRE priority, although even getting to CoL could provide a challenge. Mali sounds interesting. I would not actually expect early mints - MC is cheaper than before, but still not cheap, and with Cathy you'll really want to prioritize getting to currency somehow. But skirmishers, together with Cre borders, could keep all those cities you want to build safe.
Arabia/Byzantium?

What is your interest with Mysticism? With Cathy I'd think you can ignore it at least into the AD years.

Btw, I'm not sure if you're aware, but if you build yourself a sandbox in WB, it has to have the same size (and difficulty) setting as the actual game, or else tech costs willl be far off. Monarch/Standard here I thnk?