[PB 61 - Spoilers] rekenner stands the Test of Time. ... Hopefully.

[El Grillo]

The 1 to the left of your names is where score normally would go, the no score setting permanently sets it to 1. The number to the right is city count, but depending on how you voted for settings (city count tied to espionage) you may need to accumulate some more espionage points before it is accurate.

Your vertical position on the list is meaningless. The demographics screens, including top 5 cities, all work as they did in BtS.

[rekenner]

Alright, then I'm going to do a quick screenshot dump and come back to write down thoughts later.

<edited out, see my post slightly down the page>

Just to make 100% sure -- it's sufficient to have met the Civilization to see their cities on Top 5, right?

[rekenner]

The hits, they do not stop coming.

   

(Go, Lion, eat his warrior! Karma! Or something. Not going to happen, as Bing hasn't moved yet, so he can walk onto the hill S to avoid it.)

[El Grillo]

Re: Top 5 Cities

I hopped into a single-player game and tested it.

If you've met the civ but don't have tile visibility on the actual city, you get this:
   

After you get tile visibility on the city, you get this:
   

I'm not sure if the behavior would be different for multiplayer, but I'm leaning no.

[rekenner]

Yeah. I was just a bit ("just a bit") tilted off yesterday -- The rice spot is definitely the better spot, for... every reason, really.

Fwiw I find one of the hardest parts in these games is not to become too determined on one plan once you decide for it, and to remain flexible and keep evaluating other options. I think it's due to the slow pace - you get to flesh out and rethink a plan a lot, and it makes it harder to tjem abandon it  (for me at least).
Dedlurkers, who are not as invested, are supposed to help with that, and gladly you have 2.


I can feel your pain regarding the ivory, and I'm also unsure what was the correct thing to do there, given that you were there already. Are you going to road it, while you're there? It might be only three additional worker turns lost, if the road is then actually useful for the worker (say, in order to get onto a forest and start a chop).
Roading the cow would have saved another turn, but also delayed the tile yield of course, so

TFM looks like a nice second city
When are you planning to revolt? Right after research? With another settler moving? After another worker build?

Yeah -- I've been thinking about the game's pacing. It's interesting, It's a very slow bur, but it has to be a consistent one. Off or busy day? Still gotta play. Empty day and Jonesin' for Civ? All you can do is plan! Or hope your fellow players roll turn 5 times in one day, though that was me getting in quick turns during a busy day, hah. So, poor timing on that, but I could have taken more time if I wanted it. I'm also finding it interesting to do the writing, because it's making me think and re-think my plans, sometimes to the point of analysis paralysis. So, good and bad. I need to get a bit better at just putting things down, all of my thoughts, and going from there.

As to the road - yeah, I was heavily considering roading the cow while I was on that tile and if I was going to road the Ivory or not. I decided to not do either, because it lets my workers do some nice pairing up to build roads in what would be otherwise wasted worker turns.... the problem being information that I gathered after I had made that decision, but c'est la vie. I'll get to that in my next post.

Once again, thank you and Sullla for being saner, a bit less attached (which certainly helps), and better playing heads attached to this endeavor.

(Oh, and thanks for the confirmation, Grillo. I just wanted to make sure there wasn't an MP / CtH change, and meeting Bing confirmed it for this case)

[rekenner]

So. It's turn 32. First and Second Contact have been made. Let's talk about the state of Mali, research plans, build plans, revolution plans, C&D, and settling plans, shall we?

   

4 Improved Tiles, 4 Tiles being worked, a 5th improved tile on the way, and an Oasis to bridge the gap. Nice!

The Settler is getting good overflow from the previous build, so 5 turns until it pops out, t37. BW finishes on t35, so we'll know where copper is located before we choose a location. However, if the location is quite favorable to us... Well. Maybe I do something aggressive.

The workers have half a road on the tile they're both on, I'll move them both E, build a road, both E, both farm. This gets the farm quickly and leaves them in good positions depending on what finishing BW reveals (or to just move into the forests to start chopping).

Of our known neighbors, we're the only ones with a second city - which I suspect means a worker, worker, settler start for Vanrober (And given their population, I think that's basically guaranteed) which makes a ton of sense for India. Given that Bing has a size 4 capital, I wonder if he's about to double whip out a settler?

I have 128 beakers into BW, I'm putting 14 natural beakers in, I'm getting the 1.2x prereq bonus. It's basically a lock that Vanrober has BW, but I'm not well versed enough on the exact way the math works in terms of how the  pre-req + known tech bonuses stack vs rounding vs fractional beakers to definitively state what my beaker progress would mean, in terms of Bing knowing BW. Still, I'll note it and puzzle at it a bit - this is more for my own sake than expecting anyone to math it out. (And after I wrote all that out, I realized something -- I can just look at civics. Duh. Vanrober has Slavery, Bing does not.)

I'm very glad that when TFMars pops third ring, I'll bring the hill S of the 2 peaks into my borders, although I can probably take another city E of that? We'll see what I see when I can get a scout out that way.

Flying Fog Vision! Dramatic view of Warrior about to be eaten by Lion!

   

So. Slightly embarrassing confession time! I didn't notice the cultural borders until Bing logged in and retreated their warrior from the Lion about to eat it. Or my warrior. (I'm going to tilt off the face of the planet, straight into the sun if I lose this combat........) But there's cultural borders there, that's Bing's only city, and Hannibal isn't Creative, so that's second ring borders, putting the city probably 1N2W of that tile. Also, we can see that the coast stretches SW of the Hill sheep. Interesting.

So, a settle map. Something like... this?

   

... Just jumping to the pink dot under my warrior would be way too aggressive, right? ... right? So, if BW finishes, and there's a nice copper location that I can connect, I don't think it'd be impossible for me to finish an axe on the turn after I get copper connected. Semi-aggressively fortify the current warrior on the border, follow up with the axe a few turns behind the settler? I picked Cathy to be a border bully, eh? ... Alright, so if we assume Bing has a settler about to plop down somewhere in the next couple turns, that will give us more information. And, of course, this relies on copper being nice to us. I wouldn't expect that. Also, the N pink dot in that map is definitely a bit packed in (Though, as civac pointed out, it's got a good food source in the wet wheat, then it grabs a FP tile. Sad to see so many plains tiles, but at least it's a lot of riverside), but it's pushing out my borders. It could also go 1N. If I were to do the Aggro Pink Dot Settle, it'd be under the warrior then probably the spot 1S of the wine, then the N pink dot? I feel like, given Creative, it would be hard for Bing to take the N pink dot. Bing is CHA, but I don't think myst + monument would be in the cards early enough for that to push back my borders.

So, research plan. BW finishes on t35, I'll have 7g left in my coffers, which should be enough to finish Pottery, although a turn of anarchy delays that, as would settling's extra maint. As I said, after Pottery, it looks like clicking on Currency and forgetting about it for awhile... except for possible detours of Fishing and Archery. If I Aggro Pink Dot Settle, Archery has to be bumped up. Which to me means planning on it probably after Writing? Is that too greedy? If I don't super aggro plant, it gets delayed a bit longer.

Revolution plan: My plan was right after getting the third settler out, but if I want to get an axe immediately after that, it'd have to be delayed.

C&D screenshots (composited):

   

Most of this is justification for things I've said above.

But, the Size 6! capital makes me wonder if that's a fishing boat start. Rome? That's still a *quite* large capital, wow. (It was still size 6 on t31). Maybe a fishing into pottery for a granary start with the idea of having a very large capital to whip a bunch?

Yeah, my soldiers score sucks. To be expected. :D

(I've got all 4 of my EP going to Bing. Because. Yknow. Keshiks. c.c ... And maybe aggro planting in their face.)

Edit: Wait, why an axe and not a Chariot? Shoot. That means I should have been improving the horses, not the rice.

[civac2]

Wet plains wheat is +5 by itself. I think you are forgetting the +2 free food from the city tile.

[rekenner]

Yep, either that or getting my wires crossed with the Wine city. I'll edit. Thanks.

t33 update: Vanrober and Bing have played their t33 and still no second city or BW for Bing. Also, against the odds, my warrior lived. I *can* win combats with under 98% odds! (It was another 89%.)

t34: Still no second cities. Bing's warrior about to fight a lion.

[rekenner]

Turn 35! Where! Is! COPPER!

   

... hm. Safely mine, but not in a great spot. Well done, Tarkeel.

Warrior finishes next turn, settler finishes in 2 turns. TFMars grows in 2 turns (so I'll put a turn into a warrior and let it grow to size 3).

TFMars then goes onto a worker. Capital then goes onto..... Something, alright. I'm thinking Worker, grow on Chariot to size 4, double pop whip Settler (I'll revolt after this Settler finishes), Granary? That kinda seems slow. Might be better to chop into the settler and have the chariot follow up. City 4.... should be an aggroish plant? I'll start getting more scouting info to the E soon.

Rice farm finishes next turn (t36) + half road, road on rice tile finishes on t37 + 1/4 pasture, pasture finishes on t39, road on pasture on t40.

Also notably, Bing has a Settler on that tile! And the warrior didn't lose to the the Lion!

But because I think Bing will settle on that tile? Maybe? I can still plant my 2 pink dots, just as cities 4-5? So the plan is to found  City 3 1S of the Wine.

Updates on the rest of the world: There's a size 7 city. Bing is splitting EP with me and someone else. Vanrober is putting all his EP into me. And Vanrober's scout has stood on that tile and the grassland hill S of the peaks. Seems interesting that the scout backed up and walked around?

[civac2]

You have two workers? I think you are a bit stingy with them.