[PB61 - Spoiler] bell's uncreatively named spoiler thread

[Mjmd]

I wanted to screenshot something from Bellarch, because I think its the best argument for coin flipping for settler races coming from someone not familiar with multiplayer. I told Bellarch that even if there was a coinflip we could lose and here was the response:



YES 1000% times YES

Bellarch has been probably WAY too good about playing quickly and would get punished under the current rule set for not holding a key turn (T97). Bellarch shouldn't be punished because someone double moved into a settling race. Again I don't think Bellarch should be guaranteed 1st in turn order even though Bellarch has been playing first the majority of turns as that would favor people with more availability. Die roll to determine settler races makes so much sense!

[Tarkeel]

While I agree with you that first-come-first-serve isn't the best policy for settler races (see my PB58 thread), coinflips have not become the standard. This game in particular was started with the Etiquette Thread as the agreed upon rules. Similarly, turn order before the settler race appears doesn't matter, as then we'd just be playing sequential PBs (or PBEMs) instead.

[Mjmd]

I do apologize to Bellarch. We had a fight in the etiquette thread about this issue and I gave in WAY too easily.

I literally can't think of a better example of the current system is wrong than this one. Joshy is being rewarded for double moving.

Let that sink in for a second.  

Bellarch doesn't want some of the typical advantages of going to war over the spot (I would argue going first might be better here but I digress), because we can't afford a war with Rome unless they were collapsing. We are in the bloody middle and need a safe backlines, which Jack just naturally gets (again digress).

I get that I failed to change the rules to something that makes way more sense and we started the game with those rules. Here is my proposal. Amica at the very least is a good reasonable person. Here is what I would like to be posted in their thread and they can decide how they want to handle:

"Under the current rules Joshy would be first in turn order because when the settler race was discovered Joshy was first. However, Joshy double moved T97 into T98 (the turn of discovery). We feel that this is unfair and a clear example of how the current rule set is broken. We propose a lurker flip a coin to determine turn order."

[Tarkeel]

Due to an issue regarding turn-splits, we have to reload to near the start of T99. You should try to replay the turn as close to what you did the first time around.

This affects you directly; you should play after Bellarch until the settler race is resolved. Jesse did move his settler first on T98 when the race became apparent, but he spent time logged in writing the report so he ended after you.

This is more or less the same situation I had with AT in PB58, so you have my deepest sympathies. I will forward your message to them.

[bellarch]

Due to an issue regarding turn-splits, we have to reload to near the start of T99. You should try to replay the turn as close to what you did the first time around.

This affects you directly; you should play after Bellarch until the settler race is resolved. Jesse did move his settler first on T98 when the race became apparent, but he spent time logged in writing the report so he ended after you.

This is more or less the same situation I had with AT in PB58, so you have my deepest sympathies. I will forward your message to them.

Just to clarify, since I think the names got confused: we should play after Joshy?

[Mjmd]

I'll raise it in the etiquette thread later. I don't want to now as might affect how others view diplomacy in this game.

[Tarkeel]

You're right, it should be joshy. Apologies.

[bellarch]

Sorry to be a pain, but another question/instructions clarification came up. Basically, we're wondering if we're allowed to change the settler move from T99 now that it is known that we are in a losing settling race. Whatever decision is fine; I'm really not trying to skirt around the edges of the rules here and I just want to know what to do 

Mjmd — Today at 10:17 AM
since we are reloading so far back
I think dye city would then be settled T101, so maybe delay HG 1 turn?
. . .
Mjmd — Today at 10:48 AM
I thought reload was to 98 instead of 99
that pushes settle time to T102 I believe
bellarch — Today at 10:48 AM
yeah, seems like it
Do we get to change the settler move since we know we're in a losing settling race? The instructions were to play the turn as closely as possible, but I can see why we'd be allowed to change the settler move given the additional information
Mjmd — Today at 10:51 AM
I would assume so, there is no way you would have made the moves you did had you known for sure Joshy would get the spot
you can ask in your thread

[Tarkeel]

You should try to play the reloaded turn based on the knowledge you had at that time. I can see how knowing your order in the race might be a legitimate reason to play different though.

[bellarch]

Okay, let's get the first part of the update I've been putting off out of the way. I think this update will come in smaller chunks over the course of today rather than a traditional T100 update; we're planning to found 3 cities, (hopefully) build the Hanging Gardens, discover Iron, and build our shrine by the end of T105, so that would be a better time for the big civ overview. That being said, a lot of things have happened from a diplomatic standpoint that need to be addressed right now.

The first piece of news is that we've completely disengaged from the settling race in the southeast (which is the reason why we played before Joshy this turn). Besides the fact that we ended up on the losing side of that race, there's also the fact that we need Rome right now -- everyone else has cancelled open borders with us, and since they've lost their gems to JesseL, Joshy traded us one of their gold resources for one of our gems. We simply can't afford to be at war with Rome right now; they're too important to our current economic situation. 

The second piece of news is a ton of diplomatic developments. First, JesseL declared on Joshy last turn. This was known before the whole settling race kerfuffle went down, of course, but we've had more time to sit on it and think about it. Ideally we'd like to stab Joshy in the back and steal or raze some of Rome's western cities, but we can't really afford to do that while we still have so many units tied up in new cities and while Rome is our most important (and only!) trading partner. Second, everyone cancelled Open Borders with us except for Rome. I think this is just a consequence of building the Great Lighthouse and the other players realizing that cancelling our Open Borders strips commerce from us, though Vanrober may have canceled because I sent a scout nearby his borders a few turns ago. I've offered OB to Van and Jesse, but I doubt they'll get taken. Third, Rekenner declared on Bing! This is unexpected and honestly may just be a suicide attack so Rekenner can leave the game, though the fact that Rekenner actually has slightly more power despite having about half Bing's city count makes me think that this may actually be a bold attempt to claw back some amount of relevance. Either way, we'll need to keep an eye on this war; since we can't vulture cities off of Rome while they're at war, we should be trying to take something from Mongolia or Mali instead. 

In any case, we'll be responding to this by building up our military. While we're still at relative military parity, we've been mostly not building units while we push infrastructure. That will change now. We're about to settle our last few cities, which means that we can stop worrying about putting out settlers in high-production cities like Thalassina and focus on building axes and spears (and soon catapults!) We'll need those if we want to go to war anytime soon.

Anyway, that's a short-ish update on where we are right now. I'll have a more detailed look at things, complete with pictures and such, later today.