Depends if Bing suicides successfully.
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[no players] 62 Maps and Lurkers in a Thread
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Ouch. Tarkeel/Civac getting those workers is a pretty huge deal. I had been thinking it wouldn't be too hard for the others to catch up, hopefully, but now...
 (October 18th, 2021, 05:59)Erwin Wrote: so, Fabled/JR4 are going to settle aggressively in the face of an opponent with horses in the BFC, while they lack horses, archery, and copper. Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Tarkeel/civac do not have AH yet, maybe they're counting on that? (October 21st, 2021, 15:52)Krill Wrote: Yeah, they were so greedy, they had to go straight archery and plan to whip an Archer if they had not lucked into capital copper, but they have missed that play. I made a really bad assumption about map symmetry. Since Tarkeel and Civac had capitol BFC horses and we didn't, I assumed that we were guaranteed to have have capitol BFC copper. Since Tar Valon was settled before I finished bronze working, I didn't see the mistake until it was too late. In retrospect, I had some incredibly wrong ideas of what a human crafted map would mean.  (October 27th, 2021, 16:07)Amicalola Wrote: Ouch. Tarkeel/Civac getting those workers is a pretty huge deal. I had been thinking it wouldn't be too hard for the others to catch up, hopefully, but now... I feel terrible about this. Not only did I trash my own game, but I'm afraid I might have ruined the map for everyone 
October 28th, 2021, 14:43
(This post was last modified: October 28th, 2021, 14:48 by Amicalola.)
It's not too big a deal, I wouldnt beat yourself up over it. Now you know for next time. Bing actually also lost a worker, so Tarkeel/Civac only got one more than Nauf. Besides, the others can always try a dogoile on such a map, with many land borders.
About the assumption of symmetry, I don't think that was necessarily wrong. Recently there have been a lot of quite symmetrical maps, but it really just varies by mapmaker. Non mirrored maps can definitely be the most interesting.
October 30th, 2021, 19:38
(This post was last modified: October 30th, 2021, 19:40 by Amicalola.)
Speaking of SD, he got unlucky but none of his play here makes any sense to me. Why did he whip the axe in his capital this turn??? No granary, gives up the cow, for an axe 1(?) turn sooner. Like, maybe you want a 3rd unit for the barb-city attack, but why wouldn't you just use the spear? Or wait 1 turn.
(October 30th, 2021, 19:38)Amicalola Wrote: Speaking of SD, he got unlucky but none of his play here makes any sense to me. Why did he whip the axe in his capital this turn??? No granary, gives up the cow, for an axe 1(?) turn sooner. Like, maybe you want a 3rd unit for the barb-city attack, but why wouldn't you just use the spear? Or wait 1 turn. Well it definitely is working out for him given the incoming axe rush.
If only you and me and dead people know hex, then only deaf people know hex.
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Well here we are in the PB with some of the fastest killing in recent memory. So let's dive into this T50 report. As always all the data can be found here: PB62 Tracking
Before we start some notable observations:
Now there is no new data compared to PB61, but I was able to fix the production trackings. Here a brief explanation of the new stuff: Actual gold/science: This works like the previous science and gold tracking, but this time the slider setting is included. Therefore we know exactly how much everybody produced in those areas. Production and TotalProduction: I thought about how to better judge all the hammer bonuses for buildings, units and wonders and thought that tracking the actual production might be a good metric to track. The production metric is somewhat useful though. Tech Tracking: Similar to wonders and great persons I'm now also tracking when each player researched each tech. Small downside, I'm not tracking which tech the players choose from Oracle or Liberalism and tech tracking. The former should still be easy to guess in the context of other techs researched and the last is only used in diplo games in the past, so I didn't bother so far. Tracking all the civics: I already tracked the labor civics in use. So why not track all of them. General state of the game First of all the city count
Like I already said in the beginning I'm also tracking the actual gold and science output of the players. But some additional info is needed. Like in previous PBs the gold number does not include maintenance cost of any kind and the science output does not include KTB and prereq bonuses from other techs. Reason is that I want to compare these numbers to the commerce output to see the effect of modifier buildings and in case of science I want to be able to compare the science output between players and KTB and prereq bonus are a distraction in this case. Both numbers do include extra gold/science from specialists, modifier buildings and other stuff I haven't mentioned so far. These actual numbers are most interesting when we add up all the numbers of each turn. For the current turn and the players potential income the virtual numbers are still more useful. These virtual numbers were my previous tracking and they treated the slider as always being on 100% gold or science. At first I want to look at the current turn numbers of the virtual gold income (all players running 100% gold). Science is basically the same numbers + 1 beaker:
With the maintenance at hand we can now include that into the gold income to see how much gold everybody could make this turn:
Now let's see how good the player did across the whole span of 50 turns. For this we look at the accumulated actual science numbers, which I already have described above:
But what exactly did the players do with all those beakers. Well fear not here it is:  It should be fairly self explantory. It's all the techs the players have researched so far. The number in front is the turn the players acquired the tech. Nothing to suprising in here only that Mjmd has no Pottery so far, which might turn out to be a problem financially. Now next I want to turn to my new production tracking, but before that I have to explain in more detail how I collected this info for this PB. With this tracking I iterated through every city and added up all the hammers being produced this turn including forest chops and whips. It does include extra hammers from whipping, chopping and of course overflow. The only thing it is missing right now is hammers put into building wealth or science directly, but we are far away from that yet. I've also split the tracking into two categories Production and TotalProduction. Both work the same way but the important difference is that TotalProduction includes modifiers from buildings (forge, factory) and traits (All traits who have production bonuses). Now it's a bit sad that I can't divide it into more detail, but you can imagine that it will be very difficult for example to differentiate which extra hammer came from a forge and which from EXP granaries. Here are the accumulated total production numbers across 50 turns with the non-modified production numbers in parenthesis:
IMP (Mjmd) = 61 IMP (Tarkeel) = 39 IMP (Fabled) = 30 AGG (Superdeath) = 23 AGG or IMP (Bing) = 16 not sure if he started a barracks somewhere, but since the value is so low and he was eliminate it is irrelevant. From this we can say that Mjmd used his production trait the best so far, but then again we know what Tarkeel and Fabled did. Financial Bonus This will be rather short since nobody is benefitting from FIN so far except for Fabled who worked a gold mine I think? But he's eliminated already so I don't care. Now the one thing worth mentioning is that the lighthouse-nerf is hurting the players in this game specifically. Tarkeel loosing 49 Superdeath loosing 25 and naufragar loosing 15 commerce compared to the previous version of CtH. Protective Bonus This is somewhat interesting even though nobody is PRO, so let's look into the accumulated numbers [*]Tarkeel (ORG) = 58 [*]Mjmd (FIN) = 58 [*]Vanrober (ORG) = 55 [*]Superdeath (AGG) = 38 [*]BING XI LAO (AGG) = 10 [*]naufragar = 4 [*]Fabled = 2 So why do I say this is interesting. Well look who is sitting on second to last place. Naufragar would really benefit from connecting his cities, which in turn would help him with his recent conquest. Everybody else is developing fairly normal and nobody slipped into benefiting from the 100% PRO so far. Misc I'm tracking a lot more but there is not enough information there to justify an own paragraph. Therefore a little summary here:
I'm also tracking the labor civics and therefore can determine, when everybody switched to slavery. These are the times they did.
It's worth mentioning that both our eliminated players switched into slavery long after they researched Bronze Working (Fabled T31, Bing T32). This might be a contributing factor in their demise. Comparing traits The main goal of all this tracking of course is to compare the economic traits related around commerce income or maintenance reduction. So let's do this:  As you can see I changed the layout a little bit again in preparation for the new production tracking. I already color coded the 4 economic traits so that you easily see, who uses which trait. Except for FIN every trait has a hammer bonus so I included all of them. But I'm still disappointed in how this looks. I like how the 4 economics traits have light colors that are easy to distinguish. But with 7 more traits I'm running out of these colors. If anybody has a better idea how to do this I'm all ears. Since this is an Emperor game we can see that ORG already is doing some wonders, but PRO is still king in the very early game. Stay tuned for the T100 report (if there will be one  ).
Mods: RtR CtH
Pitboss: PB39, PB40, PB52, PB59 Useful Collections: Pickmethods, Mapmaking, Curious Civplayer Buy me a coffee
Ouch, looks like turn order really bit Nauf there. I think his spear would arrive in time if he played first, but not second. Looks like Tarkeel/Civac are the big favourites after all.
November 8th, 2021, 15:17
(This post was last modified: November 8th, 2021, 15:21 by Amicalola.)
I was thinking about Nauf's claim that Mjmd's city was greedy, and Mjmd's claim that vanrober/Nauf are settling overly-aggressive, because city placement is super fascinating in MP play. I think I agree with Nauf here. When you aren't creative, and both of your (relevant) neighbours are, you can't settle a city with food resources only in the contested 2nd-ring, because of course the creative civs will take those resources. That's the expected outcome, not an unexpected dick move. Mjmd could have just settled his city 1N, giving vanrober the sheep and forcing Nauf to go elsewhere by taking the wet corn 1st-ring.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Mjmd, I still love you. But I disagree with that plant. 
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