[PB90] naufragar's Ottomen don't have a leg to stand on.

[naufragar]

Are the early worked cottages in the BW plan because it's deity, or would you do that in a Monarch/Emperor game as well?

Because I was on auto pilot I guess. Seriously, there's not much for the workers to do. If I go Bronze Working before Sailing then I need to get value out of the chops, which likely means a second settler on the home island and another worker. But then there's still time before Sailing comes in. I don't have hills to mine and there are only two flat green tiles, so the only thing to do is cottage.

I got burned really badly in Civforum PB88 with Deity costs, so maybe there's a little subconscious push to cottage more. You can see in the second screenshot that one cottage is already a hamlet. I'm so desperate for beakers.

A galley and a settler is one thing, but if you have no idea where to send them it is worthless.

Interestingly, this is more of a problem for the Bronze first plan. With Sailing first, I've got like 4 free turns before the Settler is born during which the Galley can scout & carry two warriors to explore deeper inland.

Those of you with eagle eyes might notice that in the Northeast and Southwest of my in-game screenshot there is land, so I know my galley will at least be able to see something. I'm assuming that those aren't other players. If they are, things get interesting. (I would panic.) It's possible that those are other players and we're all arranged in a circle around some main continent. Hope not. I'm (slowly) working on an opponent analysis, and I noticed that nobody is Creative. Wonder why? (So nobody gets advance notice that they are directly next to another player? 

[Krill]

How many land tiles are there?

[naufragar]

What a coincidence. I played the very moment you posted. Here's the appropriate picture:


There are 2695 land tiles. There are 18 players, so there's 150 tiles per player. My island is 14 tiles. I assume everyone is on a similarly sized island. So there's a lot of land out there to settle.. I did wonder earlier if perhaps the gimmick of this map was that there was almost no land and people would have to play a 3 city challenge.

Off the coast of the other continent happily swims a fish. That fish in turn makes me really happy. I haven't ended my turn and still need to pick a tech, but that plains hill + fish inclines me to Sailing before Bronze Working.

(Rob wrote in the tech thread that we could explore with the archer until we settled the capital, so I moved the archer to spot one extra tile. Now he has to fortify in the cap until turn 100.)

[Krill]

There was a 6 player game which was this exact setup. Unfortunately I can't remember which game it was.

Edit: it was PBEM6, started in 2010. Jesus.

[Krill]

What is Agri-hunting-Fishing-Mining-BW-Sailing like?

[Amicalola]

Hooray for unorthodox openings!

[naufragar]

To my deep shame, I was last to end turn in a game of 18 people.



I've been insanely busy the last few days and haven't had time to sim anything out. I ended up not picking a tech on turn 0 and picked Fishing on turn 1 on a hunch.

What is Agri-hunting-Fishing-Mining-BW-Sailing like?

I honestly don't know. I need more hours in my day. I believe it ends up with a lot of waste, both worker turns and cap hammers, but I know from past experience that I overvalue keeping busy. I end up making plans with lots of moving parts that don't actually accomplish more.

Hooray for unorthodox openings!

If I can philosophize for a bit, I suspect that for most civ4 starts there is one correct opening. There can be occasionally small dials to turn ("how much do I value an early warrior?" e.g.) but otherwise the job is to find the one opening that maximizes food and hammers by turn 50 (maaaaybe from turn 50 to 75). I consider the big changes (very early wonder, religion) as variant play. What's making this start interesting to me is that I know that I will have more food and hammers by turn 50 if I settle a second city on my island before shipping overseas. But there's something in my gut telling me to get overseas ASAP. My brain is telling me this is wrong, but I feel compelled to do it this way. Wish I had more time to figure it out.

On a meta-level, I know I'm overthinking this. Miguelito PM'ed me last turn because he saw  that I planted a city but didn't end turn. He wanted to ask if I had forgotten to end turn. Of course, I had to give him some information (I said I still had stuff to think about), but in exchange, I think I got some info too. Miguelito+Rusten apparently have the basis of their plan down, so I doubt they're planning to go Sailing before BW. A second piece of meta-knowledge: people in the tech thread have suggested auto-ending the turn until t10! So I guess they too aren't agonizing about any t1 choices.

Have some in-game knowledge:


I played t1 after Aristobulus settled his t1 capital. There is now only 1 player who hasn't settled (Leolo). If we assume that everyone has an identically shaped island (big assumption but I think not too dangerous), then  on turn 0, 11 people moved+settled and 4 people settled in place. Edit: Nevermind. This has to be wrong because it doesn't account for Aristobulus' move to his coast.

[Amicalola]

Hooray for unorthodox openings!

If I can philosophize for a bit, I suspect that for most civ4 starts there is one correct opening. There can be occasionally small dials to turn ("how much do I value an early warrior?" e.g.) but otherwise the job is to find the one opening that maximizes food and hammers by turn 50 (maaaaybe from turn 50 to 75). I consider the big changes (very early wonder, religion) as variant play. What's making this start interesting to me is that I know that I will have more food and hammers by turn 50 if I settle a second city on my island before shipping overseas. But there's something in my gut telling me to get overseas ASAP. My brain is telling me this is wrong, but I feel compelled to do it this way.

I would agree with you, which is one of the reasons I don't really like the first 50-60 turns. Especially without barbarians to make the tiniest variations more viable. But as a result, any start that looks like it could plausibly offer deviations from the tedious normal One Correct Opening (Bronze Working asap go brrrr) s a win to me, even if the deviation is still Correct.

[klops]

Ok, this spy-website can tell you who did not settle, but how do you tell who settled in place or moved one tile and still setlle in the same turn?

auto-ending turns probably after everyone explored their land, not right after turn 0. There should be a couple turn with nothing to do.

[Krill]

Hunting is interesting, because going FIshing > Hunting and camping the furs should pay back the cost of Hunting by the time two second level techs are researched, and there is a realistic point that copper isn't on the home island so Archery might be needed earlier.

I'm interested in seeing just how quickly a settler, galley and workboat could be completed going Fishing>Hunting>Sailing. Worker eot11, workboat eot21, galley eot30 with the capital at size 4.