[PB64] Lurking Randomly

[Thoth]

Hmmm. Closer inspection says Commodore doesn't have wheel yet. But he's done a very pretty job of lining up the growth, production and chops to get his settler 2 whipped in 5t.

Improving 6 yield tiles is almost always better than chopping.

[Krill]

He does have Wheel? He was researching it on t30 with 4 turns to go, then on t36 it shows him starting AH.

This is about as good as it could be unless he tried a granary before settler strategy IMO. Not sure the whip is wise though.

[Charriu]

He does have The Wheel (T34). I've looked it up in my tracking tool.

[Krill]

The more I look at it what is the point of getting a settler now for Comm? That CHM happy cap and a granary with 4 good tiles to work in the desert of craptacular terrain just feels better than whipping off the only good tiles in his vicinity...

[Mjmd]

Hmmm.  Closer inspection says Commodore doesn't have wheel yet.  But he's done a very pretty job of lining up the growth, production and chops to get his settler 2 whipped in 5t.

Improving 6 yield tiles is almost always better than chopping.

So running through his opening how he did, he ends up two turns slower on the first settler (settle T42 vs T40). 3rd city also ends up two turns slower (whip T52 instead of T50). Its possible he can use the saved forest to get a granary up in the capital earlier (I didn't run it farther than 3rd), which may regain the lost turns for the 4th city. His 2nd and 3rd city though will always be 2 turns behind. Any cities or workers they produce will also therefore be 2 turns behind. 

One of the reasons I'm fine with resources like cow and pig being at AH rather than hunting other than being close to home is there is an interesting dynamic of more food vs chopping speed right now. AH openings vs chopping openings can be competitive. 

I'm pretty* sure improving the copper vs chopping an extra forest here was incorrect. While the 4 yield silks have a commerce as part of their yield, they aren't horrible.  I could be wrong though / shrug. 

As far as granary prior to expanding. I'm pretty sure the first two settlers for new food are correct to get the new food online and get those cities growing. There is insane tile sharing potential with the copper as well, which led to a fast granary at 2nd city when I did my sim.

[Krill]

? The forests are banked hammers, constant, but the improved resource hammers are variable. One shouldn't judge solely on settler speed as there is an impact later on ie in getting granaries up and running.

[Krill]

For micro, after morning cooler he could have pradesh and prechopped the forest S of the cap then couples the SE forest into a granary, whilst glowing on the workboat for the third alam pretty sure he would have granth and half full food box at 4, then been ahle to triple whip a settler after getting out warriors, over flowing into another settle for either a size 4 double whip or building a work boat for the class for another size 6 triple ship as only need 1 worker.

[Mjmd]

I would be interested in a granary first start. Maybe I'll try it later.

As far as banked hammers hoping to catch you back up to where you would be if you had spent them earlier, seems like faulty logic. Again, you have to use those banked hammers to not only catch your capital up but also make up for two other cities being both 2 turns behind. The thing that may not stand out about Commodore's "banked" hammers is that its probably going to be the forest SE of his capital, which is going to be really awkward for the worker to get to. Its not something that stood out to me upon my first try and definitely messed me up.

The reason AH starts are competitive is that more food can end up growing faster and thereby producing more hammers at speed while your workers are doing other things. Its like going 2 workers before settler start dependent (which I think 3/6 players did that I know of). The 2nd worker can help road or improve new food faster thereby making up the time to produce it.

[Krill]

Consider that either way all the forests will be chopped by t50 the termed "banked" is hardly accurate in an absolute sense, and a granary powered by 3 clams gives more effective food than a grass cow improved 2 turns sooner and you'll see the difference if you run a sim. I think if copper was hooked t33 and wheel t34 that would give forest chops on t42 and 43, so easy to get a granary down. OTOH I would have dumped overflow into the workboat so there would be 4 improved tiles on t39 and I think growth would need to be staggered...But it would be very nicely placed for overseas expansion.

Realistically that capital needs a granary and a lighthouse to power triple whipped settlers and manage commerce deficits. The sooner they are down the better but yes, they need to be balanced with growth. OTOH there is no rush to settle south given copper jungle and neighbour position as there is no competition.

[Mjmd]

And now Ginger has also not settled for new food...... Now I have to admit to doing this with Amica's start, but that was purely for worker efficiency (I did 1, settler then 2nd vs Amica 2 right away). I Suppose Ginger's capital has more tiles to spin off though. He is also protective, so it makes sense that way.