“lateish” traits? My brother in Christ, these traits are as late as they come
Yeah we need hunting, we lose at least one, possibly two turns on pasturing without. ***Need to test if Agriculture Civ fixes this by prereq bonus***
If HRE gets sniped, what’s the gameplan for Asoka? I’d say Mongols definitely on paper best remaining hunting civ, but Germany could be fun(ny). I’m not terribly impressed by Greece without PHI—Russia is same story actually.
Hm, India in exchange would get the camp a turn early, and could we not even finish the mine while AH comes in, then move straight to pasturing the sheep?
Germany, Russia and Greece would all like Phi, correct. Germany could still be fun, anyways, and with caste we can get a few extra GS. Caste also makes Greece's OB largely irrelevant, you'd just pick them for the superspears and pottery prereq, and anyways, you're playing them already.
Just to check if we're on the same page, are we sold on HRE if it's free? Are we just yarn-spinning about alternatives (I'm happy to fill pages with speculation ) or do you want to reconsider the first choice?
I had thought about India and the bonus on getting the camp faster, but that speed is negated by the starting techs so I dismissed it.
Germany feels almost like a troll option, especially with a really late leader, but a dedicated Steam Power beeline in Renaissance could be very powerful given that Levees are unlocked at the same time as the UBeralles. Coal Plants are still stuck at Assembly Line though.
I've mentioned Mongols a couple time but didn't get much in the way of an affirmative or negative
I think they might have "safer" uniques than the Germans do, and I think wheel is actually better than mining for this start. But maybe they're "less fun and too meta" than Germany (though I find that when you get to have fun is dictated more by the neighbors).
Assuming that Agriculture lets us start without hunting if the prereq is sufficiently quick on AH; is there any Agriculture civ that you feel a burning urge to pair with Asoka? I can't think of any but just checking.
(July 5th, 2022, 03:11)Ginger() Wrote: Germany feels almost like a troll option, especially with a really late leader, but a dedicated Steam Power beeline in Renaissance could be very powerful given that Levees are unlocked at the same time as the UBeralles. Coal Plants are still stuck at Assembly Line though.
Keep in mind that to be able to build coal plants you first need a factory in the city anyway. So even if they would be available at Steam Power too, you first would need the factory anyway.
I understand, rationally, that HRE is a strong option, but I'm not excited about it tbh, hence why I'm looking for alternatives. We don't want to whip the rathouses that early anyways, so I'm not sure the synergy is that strong. It's also kind of late oriented, on top of our traits, and has mysticism. Long term sure it's very sweet, and if the game hours long enough to see corporations it's awesome. Is HRE just about UB, or do you have any special ideas for the UU?
Of the Agri civs, Egypt could be interesting if we want to lean into religion and monk economy heavily. Quick shrine, bulb Theo, possibly DR on top. Great early game UU on top (and we rush AH anyways), and the techs let us go for pottery directly after clearing hunting/AH/BW.
I'd need to check how the foodhammer balance for India vs a hunting civ is for the first 30 or so turns. Mind that the fast worker is good for mossy off the game, not just the start, and particularly useful for chopping out one of or chase wonders. But I accept that the techs are subpar.
Germany has the best techs and the meme factor. I would guess with Org for the Assembly Plant to be worth it even if the Coal Plant comes 10 or 20 turns later (Ange then, like Charriu said, you can get the CP right after researching AL). I also like the UU, and think that SoL might not be that necessary - in 59 we researched MS just in the end for Commando, and that was as naval a map as any. By the time civac had SoL we were defending the inner sea with ironclads (admittedly a particular situation, and you can't go on the offense that way)
Nah no plans for the Landesknecht, seems like it’s low base strength suffers badly against collateral. It feels like the Samurai in that it’s a better version of a stack filler but nothing to plan a strategy around.
Sure, doubling up on our traits might be a problem, but commerce/gold doesn’t have a diminishing return in this game. And boosting something that you’re going to get anyways feels excellent to me. As far as the courts go, we whip those when we run into happy cap, right? Which is reasonably often in my games. I feel mixed about Mysticism start, certainly Wheel or Mining beats it, but it also does have some “stake a claim” value in a snake draft.
Egypt, early UU to carve and protect a monk economy, yeah that’d be a perfect plan for Gandhi and I’d absolutely sign if I didn’t just finish playing almost that exact game
We could do Sumeria but seems, eh dry.
The thing that excites me about HRE is it hasn’t really seen any successful showings on RB and is largely considered a standard newb pick. My inner contrarian seeks to give it a CtH win. (Charriu says Agg has no win, it’s not too late for us to swap picks to Montezuma and run that Philosophy-Nationalism Pacifism/Draft cycle)
I agree about the points of Mil Sci and Germany, don’t think SoL will be critical on inland seas. The only problem is that the way you feel about HRE, I feel about Germany—if we’re going that late with SPI/ORG we should have the upper hand in a vacuum, and waiting the entire game to get any toys doesn’t sound super fun. We might be next to Gav or SD and never see Renaissance if we get dragged down. The Rathaus looks tantalizingly early by comparison.
Regardless of power rankings, what *does* excite you? This game will be on for a while, what flag do you want to stare at everytime you log in?
I do feel intrigued by the Egypt 3 prophet play now, but if it is boring to you because you've done it we'll do something else.
With Spi I think whipping the first settler is often quite powerful, and what with 3 food resources. I suppose that works only with Hunting/Mining, so that'd be a point for Germany.
Sumeria nah.
I also still feel like India could be the boost that we need for the start and early midgame. Also combat fast workers have not had enough stage time in CtH afaik.
HRE is good no doubt, and we can play it.
I'll set up a sandbox now. Can we wait with picking until tomorrow evening (unless you convince me with words first )?
Sandbox attached. How do I change the civ? I suppose editing the WBsave file?
Had a run with Germany. Settler whipped for two pop t27 upon researching BW, from 50h. 3 warriors/scouts built. Feels quite strong. The worker has 1 turn after pasturing the pig where he has nothing to do but move to an out of range forest that we might prefer to chop. Sheep first to speed up research.
Edit: And in the process I rolled Torusland with inland oceans and now I hate SD even more
Because in so many games he has never picked Vikings, to the point where he once picked random, and here I signed up wanting to play Vikings and he takes them first. And now I see that the mapscript seems really conductive for some fast galleys. And to make it all sting more, we were third in the original snakepick order.
In general I think he's a fine man.
Egypt has AH 3 turns after the camp, so the worker gets to build a road, which must not necessarily be terrible. After pasturing the pig he can road to the second city if we don't found it on the river, or build the random mine. Settler eot 31, BW eot 36 or maybe 35 if the second city yields a surplus. By that time we could whip the second settler I suppose?
) or do you want to reconsider the first choice?
