[PB64] naufragar's bingo parlor for assassins

[naufragar]

What is the gold cost of that pop point?

A question that demands I think and makes me sad?

Honestly, I don't know. The turn probably won't roll for a long time, so I'll try to hop back and look at the finances screen. It's difficult to intuit. I'm Organized, so the added Civic Maintenance is likely minimal. (I say likely because there are some nasty breakpoints.) I've got Courthouses in the majority of my cities. And each pop point decreases the amount of gold paid in army upkeep. We can compare our expenses next turn for a more concrete answer.

But even if the profit is minimal or (heaven forbid) negative, we need pop points. My empire is very hammer-poor, so pop points are our production reservoir. All the GNP in the world won't save me when my neighbors have +50% population on me and many more hammers.

So let's just get back to marveling at the neat micro.

[naufragar]

What is the gold cost of that pop point?

Here's the "before" pic of the turn 133 Financial Advisor. "After" pic will come later.



My city maintenance is divided between distance maintenance (15 gold) and number of cities maintenance (20 gold). Annoyingly, inflation is a percentage of expenses before the Organized discount takes effect. This shows me that Org is saving me 11 gold. Not very significant savings, frankly. I guess the proliferation of cheap courthouses makes up for it.

Looking at these numbers, my gut tells me that a 2f/3c tile will definitely be profitable. Let's see if I'm right.

Edit: Here's one way to think of it. An empire-wide population of 54 citizens costs 46 gold in city & civic maintenance times 1.12 for inflation for a total cost of 51.52 gold. So, neglecting any savings in unit costs that come from higher pop, each pop point right now costs ~1gpt. Even if I get screwed on a civic maintenance break point (meaning that I cross a population threshold and the pop point causes a civic category to cost +1gpt), gaining a citizen to work a +3 gold tile should be profit.

[Charriu]

I'm pretty sure inflation is calculated with the total expenses including the ORG bonus

[naufragar]

I'm pretty sure inflation is calculated with the total expenses including the ORG bonus

Hmm. If so, then the mouse-over tool tip is wrong. In the above picture, the advisor's telling me that the costs due to inflation are 12% of 69=8. The total of my expenses is 10+2+35+11=58. So inflation seems to be calculating before the Org discount, otherwise inflation would be 7. (12% of 58).

Edit: Wait. The more I look at this screen the more wrong everything seems. Give me a minute.

[Krill]

[naufragar]

It was a long minute, but I'm back. The mystery with the previous screen is that my total expenses tally up to 69 gold per turn. My income was +3gpt from Ginger paying for my spices, so my net income should've been -66. Instead, I was making -74gpt, so somewhere I was losing an extra 8 gold.

This discrepancy persists this turn:


My total expenses according to this screen come out to 69gpt (and the "Total Expenses" row has added the components correctly). My total gold income is 161gpt, so I should be making 92gpt. Instead, I'm making 81gpt. I have no clue how to square this discrepancy. I can report that this discrepancy isn't affected by the slider. My "real" expenses are -80gpt whether the slide is at 0%, 10%, or 100% science.

This complicates how profitable each pop point is. This turn, I gained the coastal pop point for +3gpt. On the expenses screen, my expenses increased by +3 gold, but 1 of that was due to unit supply. I moved more units out of my borders. -1gpt was due to increased number of cities maintenance. -1gpt was due to increased inflation. So this particular pop point was worth +1gpt. 

Of course, all this means that Amica is scarier than ever. My Organized economy is currently running very efficiently. Amica's isn't. So all he has to do is get to Code of Laws, which is not an expense tech, and he's got all the prerequisites. Once he does, he can put Courthouses that give him +5 or +6 gold. I don't have this option. My courthouses are already up. I've pretty much reached my top speed economically. Once Amica hits code of laws, he goes supersonic.

He's planting cities to replace the ones I burned:


I'm petty, but not petty enough to burn those food resources. Not worth it.

Remember, Amica hasn't resettled his two cities that will give him a combined +18 food per turn. Now look at this graph:

[Thoth]

My total gold income is 161gpt, so I should be making 92gpt

Your screenshot shows 71 gpt + 9 gpt in inflation costs = 80 gpt in costs
161 -80 = 81 gpt

[naufragar]

My total gold income is 161gpt, so I should be making 92gpt

Your screenshot shows 71 gpt + 9 gpt in inflation costs = 80 gpt in costs
161 -80 = 81 gpt

I feel like I'm losing my mind. I have no idea where these numbers are coming from, and it's causing me to lose faith in the fundamentals of the universe.

The expenses listed on the most recent financial advisor screenshot are Unit Cost (10), Unit Supply (3), City Maintenance (36), Civic Upkeep (11), and Inflation (9). The non-inflation costs total 10+3+36+11=60. With the inflation added, this is 60+9=69, which is what the screen lists as the total expenses.

The inflation tooltip says that my total costs are 71gpt. I have no idea where this number comes from but it sure seems like current costs + a doubling of my civic maintenance, which is why I suspected that inflation takes effect before the Org discount. If my total costs actually are 71gpt, then the itemized list is wrong somewhere (because that list adds up to 60). Based on this and the previous financial advisor, you're probably right that the inflation mouseover tool tip is correct, but that makes the problem worse, because then I have no idea what my actual costs are.

[Cornflakes]

The expenses listed on the most recent financial advisor screenshot are Unit Cost (10), Unit Supply (3), City Maintenance (36), Civic Upkeep (11), and Inflation (9). The non-inflation costs total 10+3+36+11=60. With the inflation added, this is 60+9=69, which is what the screen lists as the total expenses.

The inflation tooltip says that my total costs are 71gpt. I have no idea where this number comes from but it sure seems like current costs + a doubling of my civic maintenance, which is why I suspected that inflation takes effect before the Org discount. If my total costs actually are 71gpt, then the itemized list is wrong somewhere (because that list adds up to 60). Based on this and the previous financial advisor, you're probably right that the inflation mouseover tool tip is correct, but that makes the problem worse, because then I have no idea what my actual costs are.

Your math looks correct, it looks like you aren't getting the ORG discount.

The individual categories can be cross-referenced with other available date. Unit maintenance and unit supply are simple. For city maintenance you can toggle through your cities and add up the costs displayed there. For civics maintenance you can cross-reference the total civics maintenance number shown on the financial advisor with the mouseover of civic maintenance which shows the individual civics categories, as well as cross-referencing with the total shown on the civics screen.

[Krill]

Oh god what have I done.