[PB65 Mjmd] Off to Sea Once More

[RefSteel]

If I had declared war by moving units into his territory would it have worked or would it have bounced?

It would not have worked.  You actually can't declare war by moving units into enemy territory; you issue orders to move troops into enemy territory, which they can't do, and this triggers a dialog box giving you the option to first declare war, prior to the move.  (This is not explained well or indeed at all by the dialog box, but it's the way it works.)  If you click yes, then the wardec gets processed, including unit teleporting, while your unit is still unmoved ... and then your unit attempts to move toward the tile in enemy territory you chose, exactly as if you had first declared war normally, then given your teleported unit a goto command for that tile - which in this case would probably mean moving around the warrior rather than attacking it!  If your tests were inconsistent, it was probably because of the locations of your nearest city on the landmass:  If the unit teleports to a tile that's still adjacent to the destination tile (would not be the case in the real game based on your picture and the actual in-game results) then it "works" but it would equally have worked to declare war normally and then move your teleported unit where you want.

As for "exploiting a mechanic," you're doing that by somebody's definition (Sirian's, in fact!) every time you pre-chop a forest or intentionally whip for max overflow.  Cornflakes isn't being a jerk; he's playing a game, and using the game's mechanics as he knows them to the best advantage he can, just like you.  This mechanic that has been known and "exploited" this way since literally PB1.  It does not in any way prevent an attack; no teleporting is triggered by the player who you are calling the "exploiter;" that player just occupies neutral tiles, rendering them non-neutral for wardec purposes.  At most, it denies one or more pre-war staging tile(s) in neutral territory to a would-be attacker.  Offensive teleportation is far, far, far more devastating, and makes preparing for potential attacks utterly nerve-wracking throughout peace-time, making the game less fun for everyone.  It uses a poorly-understood mechanic to enable innumerable attack vectors, sometimes by armies stationed a dozen tiles away from their targets.  Can you honestly say this seems to you less exploitive than positioning defensive troops to potentially set back an offensive force by one tile?

Now, I agree that the game's teleportation rules are dumb.  I'd like them to be done away with entirely, but that would require a wide enough mechanics overhaul that I don't foresee it happening.  If we did have a house rule like Civforum's, then I would want this case to be an exception:  Teleported units can't attack except when attacking the tile they were teleported from.  Since we don't have a house rule, I do empathize with frustration at the way teleportation works, but not with your characterization of Cornflakes's behavior.

[Krill]

Hey Refsteel, when did it happen in PB1?

[RefSteel]

I once read on CF that in neutral territory in PB, it is a matter of player ID who gets teleported. Point being, single player tests might not be too helpful for solving that riddle.

In neutral territory, the units belonging to the player who declared war are always the ones that are teleported. I don't know of any case where player ID matters for teleportation, but it's possible simultaneous wardecs (i.e. a true-AI-diplo multiple wardec request or wardecs triggered by defensive pacts) get ordered that way or something - I'm not sure.

[Ginger()]

I wanted to type something up in response because I sympathize but ultimately disagree with your position Mjmd. However, RefSteel said it much better than I could so I’ll just add that it’s a similar mechanic exploitation to the timer shenanigans in non-sequential where first puller can use/hide units immediately and second puller can mess up builds by stepping on production tiles.

[RefSteel]

Hey Refsteel, when did it happen in PB1?

Ruff_Hi's early Praet attack on Imhotep. (Agg Rome attacking Agg Zulu!) I think this happened before you met either one of them ... and ... now that I think about it ... this was one of the earliest wardecs in RBPB history, but it's possible your W2 Quechua acing Sunrise's Worker was the very first!

[Mjmd]

I think there is a large difference in mechanics that make sense from a gameplay perspective and niche this makes no sense. For instance why wouldn't production numbers add up? I expect 2+3 to equal 5. I expect to be able to move my units from 1 square to another.

Now I get we don't have an established protocol and it has happened before. There is a reason I didn't ask for a reload. I'm just stating my opinion for discussion later. I've never tried to beam units and nor do I ever intend to.

[Mjmd]

I wanted to type something up in response because I sympathize but ultimately disagree with your position Mjmd. However, RefSteel said it much better than I could so I’ll just add that it’s a similar mechanic exploitation to the timer shenanigans in non-sequential where first puller can use/hide units immediately and second puller can mess up builds by stepping on production tiles.

I mean there is a reason I started a sequential game. I'm testing my hatred for slow turn pace vs hatred for clock game junk. With a side of I know sequential games have to have fewer players. I have to say for a 6 player game the turn pace has been pretty descent. We even occasionally get two turns a day. 

I will say there are at least some defenses vs 2nd in half turn timer. You can try to do some logical things to predict. Its still functioning by things you expect to happen.

[Ginger()]

That vulture stepping on my Cow, delaying a Praetorian, traumatized me

[Mjmd]

T53.

He managed to chop out an axe plus reinforcement, so he had 1 axe in city and 1 axe plus two warriors guarding two workers. IE it didn't matter because my axe couldn't attack until next turn. Required 4 workers on his part so if I hadn't moved my 1 with my stack stupidly I would have been up some significant worker turns. I still will be, but not by as much.

I have a confession to make. Worker and warrior look really close when you are tired and for some reason I thought he had 1 axe, 1 warrior and two workers, not 1 axe and 2 warriors on the former forest tile. I may have um taken a shot at the axe, got it low, killed it with another impi and then killed another warrior, and then was sitting there wondering why I didn't have two workers to delete  

Anyways, offered peace. Will see if he takes it or pops an impi first. Edit: I guess the exploit did matter because otherwise my axe would be covering the two impis this turn and I actually would be threatening the city next turn because it would have only 1 axe. Ya it 100% did matter. My brain really isn't fully on this time of night.

[Mjmd]

T54 / T55

Because its been a second I forgot I can't end turn before taking pictures.......  The settler whip below is from T55 (it won't fin until T56 but I just don't want to forget).

From PB62


So ya I took peace so he couldn't pop an impi. I'm assuming he took peace just in case he had a 5% really bad combat roll. His little exploit cost me either the city or more likely the chance to delete two workers (ie his 2nd axe would have been in the city). I am still not pleased even after a week break.

Back to empire building. My sim had ComeRollMeOver growing to 4 same turn impi finished but T54 it grew and impi wasn't even close. I think I somehow had too much food? Ah well it was unhappy for 1 turn. Micro was supposed to work out to grow to 5 in two turns instead of 3, but again no clue what happened. Therefore changed up some micro. Basically capital was going to whip T54 but is instead doing T55 and putting more lovely food hammers into the granary. Worked out for anger timing perfectly as well. All the other cities will whip granaries. I'm pretty sure ComeRollMeOver is building a settler for the fish horse city after its granary. Being out of my sim while still needing precise chop timings is going to be some nice guesswork. The worker I accidentally sent down to Cornflakes will I think chop into a gran / settler at capital and one farming will go up to chop into that settler.

My plan is to settle the plains hill spot to grab silk long term (also because worker timing) and then also put a city way out west to grab my now 1 early happy in the ivory. Also as mentioned grabbing the fish horse city. Next city after those will eventually be placed to firm up Cornflakes border. I kind of want to take that pig away from him, but again he may beat me to it. Then I may need to work on this thing called an economy. Not sure what it is though......



Random other things:
-Almost declared war on SD because his grey color is really hard to see on plains tiles.
-did my normal thing where first two people I put EP on I was really on top of. And then I put 60 into Bing.....