[PBEM22] Friends with Benefits

[Tarkeel]

FWIW, I've used Discord for all my Civ4 discussions, and it works great. You can even stream using it if you like.

[Krill]

I've been muling over if we can win a 3 on 1 from the get-go and the answer is neither a definite yes nor a definite no, but it raises the question - can we even assume it won't be a 3 on 1? Ljubljana definitely wants to kill me and they are the most dangerous team if left undisturbed so we will have an engagement with them sooner or later. Chevalier will play pragmatic, for him the best is that both teams kill each other equally, but if we have the upper hand he'll definitely join LT against us. I can't anticipate Woden well, but I very much doubt that he'll support us and at best will be neutral, but he also won't sit idle if we are winning against the other two teams.

Then there's the argument that the more time we give them to develop, the worse it will get. So I'm thinking we go all guns blazing like I did with Nubia in 19. I can focus on them one at a time for maximum effect, but burn the ships of and pillage all of them at every opportunity rather than try to keep someone on our good side. Because they'll keep to themselves for as long as it suits them but at the end will turn against us, and I don't think they'll come at us aggressively early on anyway so we'd lose little attacking them first.

What do you think about this and do you have any ideas about how we can approach it differently?

Ah, the psychological question. This one I can answer.

Kill them all, in what ever order seems most appropriate.

[Krill]

The ally stuff doesn't work before Civil Service, need to test further but simply being on the same team isn't enough.

[Krill]

OK, so here is how it works:

The resource pillages are shared within the team as described, but the strength bonus requires the alliance be signed and in place before they show up (I state it this way because without more rigourous testing I can't say if the bonus is actually present but unseen in the interface).

This isn't a clear win because it means that to access the strength bonus we have to to give up any other alliance type, and the only way to share the pillage bonuses, is for me to get a unit to within 4 tiles of the pillage and keep it alive. Logistical issues aside, this is also a problem because it is a weakness that other players can attack. It's actually far more complicated then it appeared at first. Definitely worthy of discussion, I don't think this is a straight no. And I need to test how the civics affect the output from pillages (ie do both parties need to run "Raid"?)

[Krill]

I do wonder if Zulu aren't better as you said, given the the only difference is that can't share some of hte pillages (how many could we realistically get shared?) and then the effective double military alliance strength increase?

Anyway, I need to run and get lunch and do a little bit of shopping.

[Krill]

To confirm, (1) when either norway or sumeria pillages, each gets 40+ gold. (2) Sumeria didn't get science either time. But (3) did norway get science once or twice?

For the alliance what do you mean we have to sacrifice an alliance of any other type? I think we get the sumerian +5 for having any alliance, but all teams will do a military alliance between them because the +5 from the military alliance is far more important than the other bonuses.

1. When either party pillaged the results were shared, regardless of whether an alliance was signed or not. I did not doule check unit range (for future but not that relevant to this discussion)

I caught the alliance point after posting, yes, the other way to look at it is that Sumeria gets a free military alliance from CS onwards so can use any other alliance type.

[Krill]

Pillaging a mine gave 27 gold and 8 science, in all 3 scenarios.

I'll run the test again when I get back.

[Krill]

Scenario: Norway and Viking as team 1, no alliance.

Viking knight attacks Scottish warrior, within 3 tiles of Sumerian knight. Result: 4 XP to both Viking and Sumerian knight, observed in interface.

Viking long boat pillages Government plaza, plaza 2 tiles from sumerian knight, longboat 3 tiles from knight, pillage 13 culture (researched Code of Laws).

Then end turn.

Open turn as Sumeria: Code of Laws is researched

Sumerian knight pillage plantation adjacent to viking warrior: 17 faith.

End turn

Norway: No faith generated in previous turn (faith not shared (as expected).
Viking knight pillages pasture, generate 15 faith, 9 culture.

galley pillages campus, within 3 tiles of Sumerian knight, generate 15 science.

End turn

Sumeria researches Foreign Trade (therefore culture is shared was a 20 culture civic and took 2 turns to research). 32 faith, therefore faith shared (earn pantheon).

Sumeria knight pillages mine, 38 gold generated (then offer alliance to Norway)

End turn

15 faith in the bank, enough for pantheon.

Viking knight pillages industrial park for 17 culture, then accepts the alliance. second viking knight generates 17 culture from pillaging a theatre district.

End turn

Sumeria pillages pasture within 2 tiles of viking knight, 21 faith (tech inflation).

End turn

Vikings have 24 culture in the bank
Viking knight plunders 11 science, 38 gold (due to techs being researched)

End turn

Sumeria has an additional gold surplus (in region of 38 gold) and more science.

---

It does look like the pillage rewards are duplicated, because when I move all of the sumerian units out of range, the Viking units pillage the same amount, but those are the numbers being shown. Do we know what the pillage formula is?

[Krill]

Oh, and you know neither the Military alliance or Sumerian bonus strength applies when attacking cities?

[Krill]

Wait, does game speed affect pillage yields? This was tested on online speed so if that halves pillage yields then we should be good to go with Sumeria.