[SPOILERS] swans will bite u

[ljubljana]

i mean, GotS might not be gone! japan should be a shoo-in for the second pantheon with a fast God King (monument will finish before CoL) and early holy site build, and i think indonesia wants to open animal husbandry -> culture pantheon in most cases. if we delay the holy site then, yeah, maybe GotS is gone, but then i guess that's the use case for Divine Spark anyways...

right now i'm wondering how to balance God King to lock in our pantheon advantage with Urban Planning for general usefulness. UP is actually really really important during the boat spam period, it takes the capital from 10 hammers/turn to 11 at size 2 (2 palace + 2 city center + 2 GFH + 3 PFH + 1 trader + 1 UP) which is the magic number for 3-turning galleys. but do we run it even earlier than that to potentially shave time off the settler?

if faced with the unfortunate choice between some religious acceleration and losing monumentality, i think we should work hard to make the shrine work and avoid the HS project. i have been finding the Feed the World shrines to be such efficient builds in practice that we probably want them up in the first two cities by when the religion finishes anyways. moving one forward by 10t and delaying, say, the second city monument is wasteful but not appallingly so...

[ljubljana]

well, i tried sailing first in a test, and man oh man did having to push up the shrines decimate my growth curve i ended up having to do shrine builds in the capital and second city right as the GP came in.... aka right when i should start spamming victor galleys :| what a mess.

how about we just land the astro eureka and not have to worry about any of this? easy right?

although, ok, is there reeeeally a better time for the cap shrine, which we need for ftw anyways? after PP is wrong, of COURSE, since we must start the AH asap and settlers forever after. and of course earlier is out of the question as it pushes back the third city settler. so perhaps we can get away with cap shrine in the t50 range IF the second city is willing to swp to boats at that point in preparation for a shrine buy (?) when ftw comes in. just....just don't flood my holy site bro....

[TheArchduke]

East for Portugal makes slightly more sense I think.

2 sea ressources will net the celnav eureka.

Portugal also gets a +3 harbor there as well.

More land in the west for Japan.
The tile 1 SW and 1 W can be bought for a good holy site.

Also a harvestable stone for more japanese ships.

My vote goes for Japan west and Portugal east.


Also about the eureka for astrology. Well I think the only chance we have that is an early ship.
I doubt that we have a natural wonder on our islands on an edited map, or at the very least then would everyone else also.

[ljubljana]

i can probably consent to that, but we are going to have to be VERY careful about feitoria locations. the mega feitoria city looks like it will have to go on that northern island, 3 tiles from your capital. that means almost all the coastal tiles 2 spaces away from your capital (except the crabs) will need to be owned by my island city as they are irreplaceable feitoria spots. do we think that's going to be feasible?

also, and this is really important: do you know if the bonus resource that a feitoria is next to must ALSO be in the territory of the host civ to place the feitoria? clearly the eastern civ will want to use the banana hill asap for its 5 yields. but we need that to not invalidate feitoria spots next to the banana and no other bonus resource, of which there looks to be at least one in range of the super-feitoria city

as long as we are sure we can pull this off without the island city losing any feitoria spots i think portugal east will be ok. but i am not 100% on the latter question and we may need to test whether you can build a feitoria in my territory adjacent to YOUR banana tile...

will try to do a quick sim before committing tomorrow...

[TheArchduke]

Feitorias should probably be at a non-capital city.

I am fairly confident that we will find 1-2 spots somewhere else.

Right now it looks like we have quite a safe trade route #1.

#2 and all the others will be a different story.

[TheArchduke]

Also an info. I will be in Spain from 5th to 12th of September afterwards easy until Christmas.
Internet no issue, civ 6 a bit.

Just as a headsup.

[ljubljana]

so here is the basic setup i'm envisioning for feitorias at the central island:



looks like japan does NOT need to own the adjacent resource to place the feitoria, just the feitoria tile itself. however, we need you to make absolutely sure that your capital does not acquire the second-ring coastal tiles where we will need feitorias to go before i can place the island city and buy the tiles myself (likely not until shortly before you get cartography). i think it is very, very unlikely that we will find a better feitoria spot than right here on this central island, not just because it can likely place 5+ feitoria if done optimally but because its safety from raiders is unmatched, which is consideration #1 for the feitoria city imo - ideally we don't want you to ever have to run a trader through anywhere other than this strait between our capital areas.

can you promise me that civ6 will allow us to give the feitoria tiles we need to japan in time? i think the tile picker has a strong enough preference for land that it won't take the coast tiles, especially if your capital does not make too much culture. but we are going to need to be really really careful about this and make sure you never acquire any tiles in the strait that will block a feitoria.

are you on board w that? if so, i'm ok with doing west japan

[ljubljana]

I think TAD has convinced me about west Japan + east Portugal. the feitoria situation is going to be really tricky but i think it's manageable, but what is NOT manageable is portugal having no way to get the celnav eureka, as is required for rushing free inquiry harbors, as is required for rushing Cartography in the first place...

williams, thoughts/feelings? if TAD has no objection i think i'm fine with committing to this

[williams482]

Do it.

I think the difference is marginal and we don't want to continue causing delays.

[ljubljana]

ok cool, let us officially commit then @Kaiser

although...now i don't know where my warrior wants to move