PB72 Lurker Thread

[Krill]

All players have multiple sources of copper, in fact that player can expand in any direction and gets copper.

Any suggestions to get the left pair to a similar position as the right pair is welcome.

The water changes took 30 seconds of adding one tile here and one tile there, except that player C capital was between two bodies of water, one north, one south, and ensuring that all the capital seas are large enough to allow boats to be made. The general water layout is natural amd the peak layouts have not been touched. It would be trivial to open up the map a little bit if that was felt like the right move.

[Qgqqqqq]

Peaks count towards domination.

I like the start with tiles across the water, but from a micro pov that seems much more challenging.

What's the script?

[Amicalola]

That map seems really big. I would consider sinking some land into the ocean, unless they've asked for a looooot of space.

[Krill]

That wanted a high minimum distance between starts, and safe backlines, they can't have everything.

Script is Highlands, dense peaks, clustered. It is intended for 5 players (as every small map is).

[Commodore]

I like it, only caution I'd have is to maybe gently dissuade any newbies tempted by naval civs by the coastal starts.

[RefSteel]

All players have multiple sources of copper, in fact that player can expand in any direction and gets copper.

True, and the distance between civs is a mitigating factor too, but three civs will be able to connect their copper with just BW and a mine, potentially starting T25 if they're CRE, where one will also need either The Wheel, roads, and a second city, or Sailing and a Galley.

Any suggestions to get the left pair to a similar position as the right pair is welcome.

If that's something you want to do, I guess you'd move the northwesternmost start further north, say to the plains hill copper tile (moving the copper of course) to its north beyond the desert and peaks, turning the three mountains that would then be in its BFC into water tiles, replacing most of the new BFC (including tundra) with tiles from the old one, changing or removing the old one's resources, and shifting strategic resources accordingly. You'd want to create a walkable land bridge closer to that city though (maybe S and SSW of the old city center) - and of course all of this isn't at all a single, simple change....

[Krill]

Ref, I don't agree that Start/player C needs moving north, and after looking more closely I don't think the right pair have a straightforward border. Start/player B has to hold the wine area to keep their back line separate and there are multiple cropssing points to their east that end up being contested, it is one incredibly long area with limited strategic depth.

That said they are further apart than the left pair so I'll do a bit of work with the peaks to separate the left pair a bit more.

I need someone to randomise which player gets which start though. I'm going out now but can put up the starting screenshots when I get back in few hours.

Edit: Also sorted teh copper issue

[RefSteel]

I'm not convinced C needs moving north either; that was just my answer to how I might make the western pair's separation similar to the eastern side's, if that was wanted.

I also can't tell from the screenshots if start D has oil in its sphere of influence, though anything that late may not matter anyway, and it may be there just off the screen. Otherwise, if you just want four random letters and names:

A: Xist10
B: Aetryn
C: greenline
D: Bing

[Krill]

Alea iacta est.

I don't particularly like identical starts anymore, I feel like it exacerbates problems with start techs.

That said 3/1 tiles with seafood really do promote growth to size 2 on the workboat and then onto a worker, but the 2/2 ivory makes it a more challenging call. Bing has a slightly different capital (I don't care about the flood plain and the lakes) but given the other four tiles are so good (I don't care). If someone moans that tiles 4 through 7 in another players capital lost them the game then the map must have been pretty well balanced.

[Krill]

Looking at these starts again I am not convinced that workboat first is as wrong as all the vets are saying. Workboat completes eot7 if the ivory is worked constantly (up 1 food compared to 3 hammer tile for 2 turns to speed up the workboat one turn, but down two commerce), and fish is hooked next turn for growth@2 eot9, foodbox 4/24, with 6 hammers into a warrior or scout if inner ring, or food box 1/24, warrior 8/15 if outer ring.

Then the worker finishes eot16 with 3 hammers overflow, but the fish is already hooked so growth@3 happens eot20 for inner ring, eot21 for outer ring.

Worker first completes the worker eot9 and wheat is hooked T14 for inner ring with for growth@2 eot16 1/24 work boat 25/30, T15 outer ring the capital can only get the food box to 20/22 so it is clearly inferior for outer ring wheat (greenline and Tarkeel), but inner ring wheat is closer (everyone else) (work boat should be finished eot17 and hooked T18 so the extra three turns output on both improved tiles should catch up with the output from the improved fish and ivory only by 2 food hammers per turn, so 6 total output).

It's actually really close and there are reasons workboat first work better than expected (if anyone took a Fishing/Myst start and went spain on a lake for religion it would fit quite well).